“Trumpism is not going to be defeated by inside-the-Beltway politicians,” he said.
My, my! It’s good to see so many younger Americans ripping on an 83 year old man who has lived his socialist beliefs since high school, regardless of cost. Bernie has been outvoted, dragged, beaten, arrested, and then gone right back out to the front lines and done it all again: what, pray, are you doing , now, when it is needed, to compare? Aside, I mean, from waving your keyboard at the big, bad socialist who is at least still out there trying to push the stone up the hill once more, because it’s what he can still do?
I thought the fascists were the problem.
Bernie is right; politics needs to focus on the socioeconomic (“tangible”) difference for the people. Generating income for the people is what’s important.
He gives us focus on a problem so we can focus on the solutions. This is what populism is supposed to be, someone uniting us under one call to action, one message, and we all link arms and say with one voice that we want a better world.
The problem: wealthy robber-barons have taken over the country and rampant capitalism is undermining literally everything about our society and won’t rest until there’s nothing left to extract from a population.
The solution: https://guillotine.dk/pages/drawings1792.html
edit: the single, stinging downvote reminded me that even mocking threats against our oppressors isn’t “civil” and that if we really want to actually benefit from the wealth we generate for others, we should just sit down, shut up and appreciate the fact that literally everything is going to be a paid-subscription model designed to make sure you don’t keep a dime of your own work and effort. I promise I will be a better servant for the landowners and just work the fields like a good serf.
Didn’t Trump win because of “the price of eggs”? Seems to me that people are struggling and voting for whatever they think may help them, so there is probably a huge group of people who could be swayed by Bernie, right? One can hope lol
There’s some people who just hate on Bernie regardless of what he says or does. He if makes no comment in this time of authoritarianism, you’ll say he’s useless. If he does speeches like he’s doing, you’ll say he’s useless- as many comments here currently reflect. He typically says things that have a moral core or decency to them. He’s of course not perfect. He also has to politically function within a broken two party bullshit system which, unless there’s a significant change to how it functions, limits how he can try to enact laws. But to many here he’s clearly damned if he does and doesn’t. I’ve read through all of the comments here so far and none of the people critiquing Bernie have offered up a tangible suggestion for what Bernie should be doing instead, rather just pointing out how ineffective they feel Bernie is. Bernie made a huge national culture shift to the left through his historic runs for president. He was stifled by the DNC and ultimately lost, but the enduring left of center message continues in many politicians running in the country on the Democratic side. I am not defending the Democrats as a party at all, but I’d argue Bernie successfully used the Dems to get his message across during his presidential runs, and now as an Independent continues to have a platform for left of center messages. Whether he’s sufficiently left enough or effective enough is the eternally tired debate with some on the left who, besides shitting on Bernie, don’t themselves offer solutions.
none of the people critiquing Bernie have offered up a tangible suggestion for what Bernie should be doing instead, rather just pointing out how ineffective they feel Bernie is.
People reacting to activism, in a nutshell.
Defense mechanism
That way they feel less bad about doing nothing themselves
He’s less than useless. His moment passed. He had two chances. The first time, him and his supporters failed to see the lengths that the Democrats would go to to subvert his candidacy. Cool. I get it. It’s understandable when building ground support and frankness and sincerity are the essence of what guides your success.
But then they failed to adjust to that reality in the interim and leverage that for a successful 2020 run. I can’t imagine being owned so hard by the DNC and then just falling into line. Not just once from 2016-2020 but again from 2020-2024. His time came and went twice.
I don’t give a shit if he’s left or not. He’s politically feeble. The left may not be dead, but it’s worse off than basically everyone else including the Dems. And in no small part due to the strategic decisions of the Bernie campaign and the left’s decisions to fuel it.
It is super easy to say Bernie is useless and then offer zero solutions yourself. I genuinely ask- who’s out there doing it better? What should he and others be doing instead? The left needs constructive organizing, not negative take downs with no counter points or real world solutions as alternatives.
I’m saying Bernie missed his moment. There is no better because we don’t know what to do with this moment. We haven’t built anything outside of Bernie and that failed.
Anyone who thinks they know what to do isn’t recognizing what was lost when the Bernie campaigns failed. And maybe that’s what’s needed. To really see clearly how the Bernie moment failed to connect with the American public. We can complain that it was the Democrats fault. But damn if didn’t fail in important ways as well.
This reply is exactly my point. And…? So he’s not sufficiently left and/or effective enough for you. What is the solution? It’s easy to dump on others, and a hell of a lot harder to actually produce answers. I’ll also add that there’s a lot on the left who propose pie in the sky answers that resemble little in the way of constructive, real world, “how does this get done in real life” type answers. I’m on the left, too. I’m all for solutions. Let’s hear them. I’m beyond “Bernie is a shill” and “Bernie is useless”. Let’s hear your genius plan then for how to better this country. Be constructive.
For one stop following false idols. If Bernie was for real he would have fought Hilary and Biden to the end. He didn’t. He folded and started touring for then right away with the lesser of two evils talk. He came and took all that grassroots money and organizing and handed right over to the DNC. Bernie comes out when the people are angry and need a lullaby and the democrats need more money.
I have no doubt Bernie (if he stayed true to character) would have won both times as the democratic candidate if not for DNC being obstructionists and him not folding, but he folded. In 2020 he could have made a 3rd party viable, but he folded. He should have run 2024 with the state of everything, but he backed Biden then Harris.
Why does anyone think that guy is now all of a sudden going to fight for them?
Never vote for democrats, people who carry water for democrats, or anyone who takes unregistered foreign money. It’s that simple. They will never advocate for real change. Tell all your friends and tell them about the significance of 1972. And source your news from a wide political spectrum of real independent media.
But the Democrats are the lesser evil of two. Just because you vote in the lesser evil doesn’t mean you can’t fight it, later on. Bernie Sanders knew he most likely wouldn’t win, so he focused on fighting the Greater Evil: Trump, and the MAGA mob.
Knew he most likely wouldn’t win…
Then why did he ask for all of that money and act like he was going to win?
In 2020 he had the delegate lead going into SC before he folded as if he had the worst hand on the table.
Bernie is nothing more than the tamer of emotions. He will not fight for you in any real meaningful way. Time to leave Tio Bernie behind.
Bernie Sanders needs to start a leftist party
Someone needs to take a page outta VP trumps book and start dog shitting on how bad hes making it for the every day person. Direct the hate those people have to the ones fucking us all and a revolution will happen. Itll be an uphill battle for sure, but the big trumpers are small minded and once they are negatively affected and are given a new target, they’ll jump at it if you can convince them they’ll benefit.
Edit: forgot the word ‘it’, oops.
There needs to be a voice organizing this! Bernie would be great, however i dont think he has it in him to be like that. Thats why AOC (Alexandria Ocasio Cortez) needs to become a firebrand and galvanize any forward thinking person to push for change and not to accept anything less than better.
No more lesser of the two evils. We need to become better than we are.
A giant “fuck you” to every movie and TV show that’s had a character based on/inspired by/parodying AOC and keep putting that character up against the protagonists in some way
Is she a perfect politician? No, and I wouldn’t trust anyone who came across as a perfect politician. But it definitely feels like she’s intentionally being at best turned into comic relief and at worst villainized at every opportunity
We really need to start developing ways to primary the hell out of any of the democrats in Washington who continue to do nothing, or rather who are actively being passive because all they care about is the rich donor money. If they started feeling the heat from the chance they could lose their position to a challenger they’d start to change their tune.
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Name one effective thing leftists are doing.
Didnt AOC just host a massive rally that helped to prevent space karen from ransacking the department of labor with his likely H1B visa doge goons?
AOC is a democrat and not a generally representative of leftist ideology.
The democrats are a center right controlled opposition party and AOC is one of the farther left voices in it that refuses to get in line when told to do so. Yes she has been disappointing at times to a leftist like myself but shes our last hope outside of an armed revolution at this moment.
Ahhh… so you’ll claim the democrats that you like as leftist, regardless of their political affiliation? Is that how this works?
We don’t have a leftist party to be affiliated with, so by your logic, leftists don’t exist.
How is that by my logic? That doesn’t even make any sense. I said nothing at all about leftists not existing, or being affiliated with any party.
Seriously… can any of you hold a concert with anyone without creating straw men?
My point was that you all seem to hate democrats so much, but yet- claim any democrat that you happen to agree with. AOC is a democrat and not a leftist, regardless of whether or not you affiliate with any party.
Your reading comprehension is a little bit wonky there my fellow hooman.
Aoc and a few others in our government are the farthest left when compared to the rest of our representatives and leaders. I myself am somewhere between an anarcho-syndicalist / marxist/lennenist / communist and unfortunately we dont have representation that fully aligns with my ideals within the us government. But when compared to the rest of our public servants Ocasio-Cortex, Illihan Omar, aryana presley bernie sanders and Rashida Tlaib are the only people in our government that have anything resembling a spine and or balls when it comes to the blatant fascist ideology that has creeped into our institutions and ultimately become blatant and emboldened as of late.
Holy shit this has become juvenile. “Hooman”? Really? What the hell is that even supposed to mean?
And to my point- regardless of what YOU align with, SHE is still a democrat.
Also- my reading comprehension is just fine as it is. But I think maybe you might need a refresher in political affiliation, because while she may be the closest thing to whatever nonsense you follow this week, she is a democrat and represents the Democratic Party- something you all are very, VERY vocal about you opposition of.
Which was the irony that I was pointing out- the same irony that YOUR reading comprehension clearly missed.
Now go on and enjoy the last word. I know how important it is to you.
Name one effective things democrats are doing? Selling weapons to genocidal countries?
ROFL… following me around now? You can’t continue harassing me in the other community because you got banned, and now you’re going to track me down to keep it going here?
Begone, troll!
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Naah… I call you a troll because you’ve followed me here after hurling childish schoolyard insults at me elsewhere.
You don’t deserve a discussion. Your little troll account is only nine days old and already you’ve had seven comments removed and have been banned from a community in just less than an hour.
Then you followed me here, insult me further and expect a discussion?
Oh- and it’s cowards that hide behind childish insults aimed at strangers on the internet when they cannot contain their emotions.
The fact your liberal bubble is removing comments should alarm you to the kind of brainwashing you’re being subjected to if you weren’t in the lower-range IQs.
Yeah. I get it. You got yourself banned for showing your ass elsewhere, so you’re coming after me in communities you’re not yet banned from because you can’t keep that rage bottled up.
Such tough! Much impressive!
I’m going to go ahead and show you a kindness where it’s not deserved, and allow you your desperately needed last word as a charity.
Don’t waste it.
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woa take a chill pill my guy
ROFL! Threats now?
While I feel like this is bait, lets just say they are the ones out here actively confronting it, maybe not in the spaces you are watching but they are on the floor and in their communities talking to the people and voicing their concerns. But to your point, they can not do anything alone, they dont have more then a handful let alone votes for anything more of “Hey this is the law, they are breaking it” but going after them isnt easy they dont have the bankroll the libs and conservatives have from all their corporate backers.
Again… name one EFFECTIVE thing.
My brother in society, how do you think movements start?
There’s not going to be a Blue-vested Donkey that flies down from the sky and smites Elon and doge. You’re not going to be saved, there’s nobody coming.
Until more people realize this, they’re going to continue acting with impunity while everyone acts paralyzed and waits for someone else to do something. YOU do something, acting cynical on the Internet isn’t contributing in any way in a positive direction.
Its the leftist that are doing anything right now.
Name one effective thing.
You’re not attempting to state a point, you’re sealioning.
They replied to you and stated what people on the left are doing. Asking the same question over and over again while not actually engaging in a conversation is just trolling and unwanted.
They didn’t answer the question. They just said some crap about how some people are talking to people about the things happening and “voicing concerns.” That’s not any more effective than what anyone else is doing- yet they claimed:
It’s the leftist that are doing anything right now.
… which is clearly implying that no one else is doing anything effective.
So… what I’m doing is asking a simple question to support a claim that was made by someone else. What effective measures are being done by the leftist that aren’t also being done by democrats and or anyone else for that matter?
Hell, even conservatives are gathering to oppose Краснов.
And now, for some reason, you’ve chosen yourself to be the one to step up and speak on their behalf? Only you’re using the tired and painfully transparent tactic of derailing the question by personally attacking the person asking by falsely accusing them of bullshit to keep them on the defensive.
I’ve argued with thousands of versions of you before. So I’ll ask again….
Name one effective thing leftists are doing that no one else is? It’s a simple fucking question, genuinely asked. So don’t accuse people of sealioning because you don’t like being held to scrutiny.
And while you’re working on that, how about you familiarize yourself with that sealioning definition of yours and see how what I’m doing here doesn’t resemble it in any possible way.
I heard them described as ‘Limp Dick Democrats’ today.
And that’s pretty fitting.
Yes, when you equate it to a fear that men understand, then you get the “ah” moments of enlightenment
It is good to see Bernie out there active. The only issue is where does this all go? Harris lost and no leadership changes has been made. Dems are actively throwing their hands up saying they can’t do anything.
The only issue is where does this all go?
I can only hope to people not looking to the DNC for answers and we break their duopoly with some sort of working class / labor party.
Bernie lines up all the people who thought of leaving the Democrats and prevents them from organizing around an alternative.
Then when the next election comes Bernie tells them to unconditionally vote Democrat because they have no other choice.
Pied Piper Sanders.
So then we vote in the next milqtoast neolib who doesn’t meaningfully improve things in enough time to stop people from voting R again?
We need a leftist party and as long as the Neolibs are in control of the Democrats they will never allow that to happen.
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Some are getting enthusiastic, but if you look at the past decades: one realizes that it’s the same small group/ type of people being motivated and excited again and again, with zero effect seen years later.
Big changes that become extremely popular and supported by the public and are largely looked back on by future generations as positive or even necessary are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
Do not underestimate the power of small groups of passionate people who want to make the world a better kinder place. You can’t bribe these people, you can’t distract these people, you can’t silence these people, you have to jail and kill every single last one to stop them from agitating the shit out of the general population to get normal people to fight for better treatment for themselves and others. Every single one of these people is from the perspective of an authoritarian dictator a nightmare to deal with since like a catastrophically deadly virus, it only takes one of these people spreading the contagion uncontrolled and unnoticed to tear the body apart.
The federal government and many states are not democracies; any strategy that assumes this will not work. Any movement that will not fix bad voting systems will fail.
Agreed, I don’t mean to downplay the gravity of this situation, but on the other hand I think many people are comfortably past the point of needing to hold on to the structures that define the status quo. Government does not exist once the majority of people stop believing in it a basic level. Violence and control still exist, and they yet may win the day, but no matter what happens in the realm of physical bodies struggling against other physical bodies in the realm of ideas they have already lost and that means that no arrangement of threats or violent systems of control will truly ever be stable.
I take hope in that.
are often instigated and initiated by small groups of passionate people who are genuine in their desire for a better world.
These people have either a working democratic system already, a plan to force that to change, or the ability for organized violence.
The main problem with this sort of movement, and indeed most of the liberal USA online political community is that none of those apply.
I am not trying to negate the worry and fear you are speaking to, it is rational, things are looking very grim in the US and lots of other places too (a lot of places because of the US ughh) I was just trying to point out that good people don’t need a functioning top down government/hierarchy to be good people. Communities will persist and individuals will perish, along with rugged individualism as a pseudo-religion.
Now is the time to find and connect with the people in your life that don’t look to rules to understand how to be kind, but rather look to the heart they wear on their sleeve and extend in vulnerable expressions of trust to odd people who don’t quite fit in. Those people exist and they will always exist.
Which isn’t to say that you are wrong or that things are going to be good, or that good people are going to win in the nearterm.
Now is a time to look towards Indigenous voices, Black voices, voices of minorities of disabled communities, voices of people with unusual minds, lives and bodies. These people are used to living, fighting and persisting in this kind of reality, it is only the rest of us that are newly born into a much scarier world where things we thought were safe actually want to hurt us for reasons we have no control over.
I agree with your sentiment and feelings.
But unless there is good governance, or a plan to create good governance, it’s not political here, only common sense in what you are saying.
Politics means changing the current governance, which these movements cannot because they are too kind, gentle and naive. Activists I talked to in the last few years, people of different backgrounds seem to have an amazing trait of speaking true to their causes yet have a childlike faith in the very people who oppress them to run fair elections in many states. Or absent that, a failure to speak on that publicly.
One cannot do politics by voting unless there are accurate ballot counts that pass United Nations standards
And I think those living in the states which do have real democracy are affected by those which are not.
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Until then, I think it’s good that people are banding together as more of a community; just don’t call it effective politics in the level of national or many states
Fair and again I think your critique is a super important one, I am responding because I think what you are saying is important. What I am trying to suggest is that maybe we shouldn’t strive for movements that work on the level of states or federal governments right now, now is the moment maybe to work along vectors that exist as alternatives to those structures of power. I guess in a way that is what you are saying is necessary, I think we are both speaking to the existential need for a progressive embrace of radicalism in this moment.
I can agree with that.
One of the reasons we (in the USA) are in this mess is the collapse of community structures, both along ethnic and general lines. What I witnessed decades ago, with grassroots and community outreach, is not possible today due to how many times people have moved, changed careers and adapted to new technology ( the USA in the last two generations had more change than Europe in the first industrial revolution, by many metrics, and after such changes it takes time). Its why local politics is often not talked about.
So anything that is community building, is good, and a step toward better lives later. And I totally support that, in whatever form
Most of them are totally fine with most everything that’s happening. They have all the tools to keep their stock portfolios stacked, they never cared about poors, and they get to campaign on “omg look how awful.” They’re gonna whine performatively and not do a damn thing to actually stop a single thing. If they had half a collective spine and a fractuon the moral fortitude Bernie does, we never would have gotten here to begin with.
well that is Bernie’s role.
Act the part full of piss and vinegar and eventually tell you to vote for the fimal corporate dem.Don’t get mad at Bernie because the people won’t act. He can say the most correct, moral and ethical things imaginable; it doesn’t mean shit until people stand up and fight for it.
And since we’re considering roles, what’s yours? To piss on any and every semblance of progress because it doesn’t meet your exact moral criteria? lol
Bernie did not have to capitulate. But he did.
The perma stun proceeds as planned
Come on, he’s almost gone. I admire him, but it’s sad to watch.
Hate being that guy, but going to be anyway- as much as I like Bernie, he always seems to talk a lot and yet, never manages to do anything. It’s always, “Bernie doesn’t like this thing,” or “Bernie had stern words for this person,” but nothing ever happens from it.
He’s like if Anonymous was a government employee.
This is more accurately a right wing talking point about Bernie. A quick search will turn up many articles such as this one from the 2016 elections. One thing to keep in mind is that he doesn’t introduce as many bills as some of his peers, but has had great success in passing amendments to bills.
Perfect? No. Unaccomplished? Absolutely no.
I wasn’t trying to say he’s unaccomplished. Not at all. But the news always likes to prop him up as the one true savior, and nothing ever comes from it.
