It’s hard as one having free (state paid) healthcare in EU, to imagine anything but just going to the doctor, and the doctor seeing to it, that you get the correct treatment.
No paperwork, no hassle, no bill.
I can’t imagine why USA hasn’t introduced something similar yet, but prefer all that bureaucracy that only makes the whole process way more expensive. Just to make sure some unemployed poor guy doesn’t get free treatment!!
USA is a psychopathic society.
I would have agreed on the “probably” until Musk basically bought his way into max corruption with a seat right next to the president.
Those 40 billion he has practically lost on Xitter, will most likely be gained already within the first year.
There is no doubt IMO that USA is now de-facto an oligarchy.
Apart from also being an oligarchy, yes it is capitalist.
But here (Denmark) we would technically call it SUPER capitalist.
Because Denmark is also capitalist, but like the rest of EU, we balance capitalism with general interests of society. Where USA favor capitalism way more.
Once upon a time, I thought the arrival of the internet would mean ordinary people would be better informed. But Trump being elected twice has proven me wrong.
It’s not used as much for information as it is used for misinformation and propaganda.
In the 70’s I thought better information would end religion, it’s insane how quickly we are getting absolutely nowhere.
I have come to realize, that I’m VERY naive in some respects. Hard not to turn into a cynic.
I can’t imagine why USA hasn’t introduced something similar yet, but prefer all that bureaucracy that only makes the whole process way more expensive. Just to make sure some unemployed poor guy doesn’t get free treatment!!
(concepts stolen from a very insightful reddit post from years ago) Nearly all modern conservative positions can be explained with two idea.
Society is zero-sum. For someone to gain something, someone else must lose something.
Class is defined and there should be no mobility for lower classes to ascend to higher classes in society.
So apply this to healthcare:
Most arguing against medical-treatment-for-all view it as zero-sum. So for most its not just because they don’t want some unemployed poor guy getting free treatment, but rather, “if the unemployed poor guy gets free treatment, then treatment won’t be available at some point in the future when I need it”. This is silly of course.
For others arguing against medical-treatment-for-all, the suffering is the point. The unemployed poor guy should suffer because that is his station in life. A life of comfort is reserved for those of higher classes. They believe, alleviating his suffering would go against the class he’s in and should in. This is, of course, also silly.
They also use the higher taxes argument. They lean on the decades of anti tax propaganda and tell people your taxes have to go up for it to work. Of course your taxes go up by less than you save on premiums and deductibles, but they just shout, “taxes are theft” over anyone pointing that out.
Wait until you find out that we actually get money deducted from our paychecks, a good some of money under “Medicare”, that we don’t get. We just pay for it on top of our monthly premiums for the insurance.
Of all the things to be angry at re: health insurance, this ain’t it. You are not mad at Medicare existing. Like you do realize that 99% of people on this site want what you just described, but for all health care at all ages, right?
There are plenty of issues with Medicare, but what you just described is probably the easiest part of this whole situation for a European to understand due to its progressive nature.
I think it’s pretty reasonable to be pissed about paying for something you can’t use. Especially if they’re in the same boat I am where their taxes are literally the difference between owning a home or not.
Yeah, and my taxes shouldn’t have to go toward paying for schools because I don’t have kids right now, right? And what about libraries? I haven’t been to one in decades, why should I pay for them? And roads… I don’t currently have a car, so I should not have to contribute to maintaining roads and bridges.
Are we really going to have to go back to middle school and explain the social contract?
That CEO’s company made $22 billion in profit or something. Put just $1 billion of that in lobbying and you got a whole army of people manipulating the results in favor of the current status quo, and you’ll have your $21 billion instead of $0.
It’s money. It’s specifically a video of a white man with an expensive suit dancing in a rain of hundred dollar bills while the chorus to Money Money Money plays.
Politicians know the system is broke but they benefit from the money and have government sponsored top tier healthcare.
It’s hard as one having free (state paid) healthcare in EU
Your health care is neither free nor “state paid”, you pay for it, the government just takes the money before it ever arrives in your bank account. You should know how much you pay, and how the service compares to a comparable commercial health plan.
Oh for fucks sake, I wrote state paid exactly to prevent this bullshit. Obviously we pay the state through taxes.
This is such a tired argument, and doesn’t change that single payer or whatever words Americans use to describe what we in Europe merely call healthcare, but healthcare for all is so much cheaper to run, that the money saved easily cover the poor that can’t afford to pay if they had to.
Your moronic parroting of extreme right wing talking points have zero impact on a reality that is way different from what you try to manipulate people into thinking.
I attack you for stating the obvious, which seems like an attempt to make it seem like “free” healthcare doesn’t really matter, and cost the same as privatized through private insurance. When in fact it is way cheaper overall.
In Europe healthcare cost are about half of what they are in USA, and life expectancy is longer, and old age quality of life is higher mostly because of better old age health.
If it’s obvious, why don’t you use correct terms, something like “public health care”? Using correct terms is an extreme right wing talking point? Lol…
Because Americans have so goddam many terms for similar things. Single payer, universal, public, public insurance, private insurance, community based, employer paid. The current system is called “Mixed non-universal”. So I used a description instead. And you knew what I meant.
BTW how many languages do you speak? It’s pretty low to criticize minor mistakes by someone writing in a 2nd language.
I write better American than many Americans!!!
So you intentionally say wrong stuff and then attack people as extreme right wing who correct you. Charming. You’re also starting to make excuses, 2nd language, but you still can’t apologize for your shitty behavior.
It’s hard as one having free (state paid) healthcare in EU, to imagine anything but just going to the doctor, and the doctor seeing to it, that you get the correct treatment.
No paperwork, no hassle, no bill.
I can’t imagine why USA hasn’t introduced something similar yet, but prefer all that bureaucracy that only makes the whole process way more expensive. Just to make sure some unemployed poor guy doesn’t get free treatment!!
USA is a psychopathic society.
The US isn’t a country.
It’s a business dressed up as a country.
(More like 50 countries dressed up as a business dressed up as a country, but then even that gets more complicated)
wtf do we call our society, anyhow? Just “capitalist”? Is that still the term?
Oligarchy
You know, I probably agree. We’ve, at the least, been headed in that direction. And, are likely about to plunge all the way in, a month from now
I looked up oligarchy on Wikipedia out of curiosity. Although it’s debated, the U.S. is listed as an example of one
I would have agreed on the “probably” until Musk basically bought his way into max corruption with a seat right next to the president.
Those 40 billion he has practically lost on Xitter, will most likely be gained already within the first year.
There is no doubt IMO that USA is now de-facto an oligarchy.
We were an oligarchy.
With the new administration, it would be more apt to call the US a plutocracy.
imo Corporatocracy
Corporate dictatorship?
Apart from also being an oligarchy, yes it is capitalist.
But here (Denmark) we would technically call it SUPER capitalist.
Because Denmark is also capitalist, but like the rest of EU, we balance capitalism with general interests of society. Where USA favor capitalism way more.
No, it’s not super, it’s just capitalism. What you are describing in Denmark is a “mixed economy”.
This is too close to sovereign citizen bullshit for me to take seriously.
Did you just compare my comment to those fucking idiots?
“We” have been heavily propagandized into this. As a nation we’re a masterclass in being brainwashed against our own interests
Once upon a time, I thought the arrival of the internet would mean ordinary people would be better informed. But Trump being elected twice has proven me wrong.
It’s not used as much for information as it is used for misinformation and propaganda.
In the 70’s I thought better information would end religion, it’s insane how quickly we are getting absolutely nowhere.
I have come to realize, that I’m VERY naive in some respects. Hard not to turn into a cynic.
TBF the US is way less religious than we were in the 70s.
(concepts stolen from a very insightful reddit post from years ago) Nearly all modern conservative positions can be explained with two idea.
So apply this to healthcare:
Most arguing against medical-treatment-for-all view it as zero-sum. So for most its not just because they don’t want some unemployed poor guy getting free treatment, but rather, “if the unemployed poor guy gets free treatment, then treatment won’t be available at some point in the future when I need it”. This is silly of course.
For others arguing against medical-treatment-for-all, the suffering is the point. The unemployed poor guy should suffer because that is his station in life. A life of comfort is reserved for those of higher classes. They believe, alleviating his suffering would go against the class he’s in and should in. This is, of course, also silly.
They also use the higher taxes argument. They lean on the decades of anti tax propaganda and tell people your taxes have to go up for it to work. Of course your taxes go up by less than you save on premiums and deductibles, but they just shout, “taxes are theft” over anyone pointing that out.
This is a rephrasing of their zero sum argument. As in “for the poor to gain healthcare, you, the middle class, must lose wealth”.
deleted by creator
Wait until you find out that we actually get money deducted from our paychecks, a good some of money under “Medicare”, that we don’t get. We just pay for it on top of our monthly premiums for the insurance.
Of all the things to be angry at re: health insurance, this ain’t it. You are not mad at Medicare existing. Like you do realize that 99% of people on this site want what you just described, but for all health care at all ages, right?
There are plenty of issues with Medicare, but what you just described is probably the easiest part of this whole situation for a European to understand due to its progressive nature.
I think it’s pretty reasonable to be pissed about paying for something you can’t use. Especially if they’re in the same boat I am where their taxes are literally the difference between owning a home or not.
Yeah, and my taxes shouldn’t have to go toward paying for schools because I don’t have kids right now, right? And what about libraries? I haven’t been to one in decades, why should I pay for them? And roads… I don’t currently have a car, so I should not have to contribute to maintaining roads and bridges.
Are we really going to have to go back to middle school and explain the social contract?
So let the people who have extra to spare pay for the shit they’re not using.
This made me laugh… and cry.
It’s pure lobbying.
That CEO’s company made $22 billion in profit or something. Put just $1 billion of that in lobbying and you got a whole army of people manipulating the results in favor of the current status quo, and you’ll have your $21 billion instead of $0.
Right, but what do you do when someone who works less, or isn’t as talented or smart, as you gets the same or better healthcare!?
Edit: /s
Same not better. And that’s the thing, when equal healthcare is the norm, it becomes surprisingly normal. Nobody gives it a second thought.
It’s money. It’s specifically a video of a white man with an expensive suit dancing in a rain of hundred dollar bills while the chorus to Money Money Money plays.
Politicians know the system is broke but they benefit from the money and have government sponsored top tier healthcare.
Because the CEOs of healthcare companies keep pushing to lobby against anything like that which would hurt their profits
Your health care is neither free nor “state paid”, you pay for it, the government just takes the money before it ever arrives in your bank account. You should know how much you pay, and how the service compares to a comparable commercial health plan.
Oh for fucks sake, I wrote state paid exactly to prevent this bullshit. Obviously we pay the state through taxes.
This is such a tired argument, and doesn’t change that single payer or whatever words Americans use to describe what we in Europe merely call healthcare, but healthcare for all is so much cheaper to run, that the money saved easily cover the poor that can’t afford to pay if they had to.
Your moronic parroting of extreme right wing talking points have zero impact on a reality that is way different from what you try to manipulate people into thinking.
So… you agree with me, but still attack me?
I attack you for stating the obvious, which seems like an attempt to make it seem like “free” healthcare doesn’t really matter, and cost the same as privatized through private insurance. When in fact it is way cheaper overall.
In Europe healthcare cost are about half of what they are in USA, and life expectancy is longer, and old age quality of life is higher mostly because of better old age health.
If it’s obvious, why don’t you use correct terms, something like “public health care”? Using correct terms is an extreme right wing talking point? Lol…
Because Americans have so goddam many terms for similar things. Single payer, universal, public, public insurance, private insurance, community based, employer paid. The current system is called “Mixed non-universal”. So I used a description instead. And you knew what I meant.
BTW how many languages do you speak? It’s pretty low to criticize minor mistakes by someone writing in a 2nd language.
I write better American than many Americans!!!
So you intentionally say wrong stuff and then attack people as extreme right wing who correct you. Charming. You’re also starting to make excuses, 2nd language, but you still can’t apologize for your shitty behavior.