I’m just curious what people like Marco Rubio and Mark Zuckerberg, who are passively supportive of the installation of authoritarianism, would have learned at school about that period in Germany.
I’m asking this as that question and not as a leading question into a discussion on today’s politics.
What is the level of awareness the average American person in their 40s and 50s on how the Third Reich started?
One thing to keep in mind with a lot of responses is often when someone says “we didn’t learn about x in high school”, what they should be saying is “I didn’t learn about x in high school”. I’ve certainly heard former classmates claiming not to have learned something even though they were sitting next to me when I learned it.
When i was a preteen, we learned about WW2, mainly from a US perspective, and had a fairly large focus on the holocaust, including a visit to a holocaust museum.
As a teen, I had a class on specifically European history. In there, we learned about lot more about the rise of the nazis (though not much on Italian fascists).
Here’s the tl;dr on what I remember learning about then:
WWI ended with the treaty of Versailles which was not a realistic, sustainable peace. We learned about the economic trouble like hyperinflation. We learned about the beer hall putsch, and that it was effectively unpunished. We learned that Hitler then sought power through legal means by allying with a broad range of groups unhappy with the current government. As he rose to power, various elements were purged from the government. Concurrently, political violence from the stormtroopers suppressed minorities and other enemies from organizing against them. This culminated in Hitler being elected chancellor, and then the enabling act gave him ultimate power. In the night of the long knives, all the allied elements in the party were purged. After that was kristallnacht, the remilitarization of the rhineland, annexation of Austria and the sudetenland, and then finally the invasion of Poland.
I’m in the demographic you’re looking for. It went something like this:
- End of WWI with the Treaty of Versailles
- Massive war repayment debts placed on Weimar Republic
- Beer Hall Putsch
- The Weimar Republic falling because of disenfranchised German citizens
- Nazi party rising in power in the Reichstag
- Brown shirts (SA)
- Burning of the Reichstag
- Hitler seizing power
- Night of the Long Knives
- The west ignoring military limits on German military expansion (aircraft, Panzer 1)
- Annexation of Austria
- Talk of leibenstrom
etc
Thats from memory. Apologies for butchering any spelling or some of those events out of order.
So, yes, lots and LOTS of things in the USA government right now are ringing alarm bells like crazy. Executive orders just this week of military support for local police “to root out immigrants” sound close to creation of the Brownshirts (SA). The villainization of immigrants sound disgustingly close to the targeting of various minority groups that Hitler targeted (Roma, Jews, gays, Poles).
We learned about Anne Frank and read Night in middle school. In high school we had separate classes for US, world, and European history. We covered the beer hall putsch, kristalnacht, Reichstag fire, that Hitler was given emergency powers, etc. WWI reparations and hyperinflation. Propaganda and Josef Goebbels “if you repeat a lie long enough, people will start to believe it”. Watched some of Triumph of the Will. We also had separate classes covering western philosophy which included Nitzche and how Nazis appropriated the will to power. I’m sure I’m forgetting a lot of the details. However I suspect this is more education than the average American receives.
I went to a school in the middle of nowhere Texas and learned only about half of what you did and it still was impressed upon us how terrible the nazis were. There’s no reason any American shouldn’t know that this is heading right back in that direction.
I received approximately the same education. Except without the last bit about philosophy. But I went to a decent school - I can’t speak for all Americans.
Not good. All I know is that WW1 ended unfavorably for them, and that struggling under economic sanctions from the other Euro nations is a big part of what laid the stage for Hitler’s rise to power.
In the mid-70s, in middle school (8th grade), we were taught all about the holocaust-which I remember because of the pictures and movies. I don’t remember what we were taught about the war itself, I’m sure it was covered. I didn’t realize it then, but many of my teachers grew up during, or were adults during WWII, simply based on how old they were. My English teacher that year was 70+, and he told combat stories in class.
Can’t tell if you only want answers from Americans in 40-50s, but I’ll offer mine anyway lol
I was raised upper middle class, and homeschooled until a private school my parents agreed with opened nearby. I learned about nazi Germany only in the sense that was wrong to punish people for what they looked like, what race they were, and what professions they had. Very little was said about the people who were punished for helping Jewish people, and nothing was said about how the typical citizen was treated. I was taken to a traveling Holocaust exhibit and told to never be racist because of the human lives lost.
You could say I was raised to think authoritarianism was correct, especially because “democracy allows stupid people to have a voice”. I was not allowed friends from other races or social classes as far as my parents could help. So I was taught “don’t be racist”, but at the same time was very strictly told I couldn’t have anything in common with anyone else that didn’t look and live like me.
That changed a bit when I met my best friend in high school, they are a first generation immigrant. I remember later, as 19 or 20 year old, I took a quiz on my preferred government type and was fucking floored when it said I was a fascist. My dad moonlighted for an enforcement agency for much of my life, so I guess I learned some fucked up things that way, but still it was a shock.
Anyway, I have had to do a lot of introspection and self education, and I’ll never be done learning and growing. I’m not a billionaire, so I’ve probably been a bit successful with that
History is second to math.
“Money money, business, money, go to college, money, greed is good, money, money”
Kids are brainwashed and people have forgotten that Greed is one of the seven deadly sins. The US now preaches greed as a virtue.
Those guys are older than me but the extent of my education on the matter was basically that Germany was experiencing a lot of poverty and inflation and stuff until Hitler came along and stole everyone’s hearts with his charisma
WWII, and actually the entire 20th century except for some civil rights stuff, was actually hardly covered in history class at all. But boy oh boy did we cover our Revolutionary War about 8 times over, and our Civil War like 5 times over. Most of my knowledge about WWII comes from family members and the History Channel (back when it was about history)
nonexistent. i wasn’t really taught much of anything about Germany except what led up to WWII and even then it was heavily edited and summarized. i had to find out the lengthy history for myself and do my own research.
Most of my history / social studies classes, including AP history my senior year, focused on the United States. I think there was and is an AP World History, but my school didn’t offer it. So we learned about Pearl Harbor, and D-Day, and Nagasaki, but not much of the Euro-centric lead-up to war.
One of my social studies classes, maybe 9th grade or so, spent a period watching The Wave, which might be the closest part of my formal education to addressing OP’s question.
Practically none. The only formal education I had that covered the 1930s focused on the Great Depression, and blaming it primarily on the Dust Bowl The same school system completely skipped WWI, and the only WWII lesson was a week on the Diary of Anne Frank.
Everything I know about the rise of Hitler, I learned on my own.
Aside from the goriest details, I’ve known the gist of WW2 since middle school. Some things may have changed since then, but the people who are making the decisions aren’t far from my age.
That being said, all states have different education standards. If the Mississippi board of education decides there was no Holocaust, they aren’t going to teach it there.
The other variable is how much they cared. I know plenty of Americans that couldn’t tell you the history of anything, and I also know some people who’ve made a career out of American History.
There was no national shortage of knowledge available, some people just don’t care.
Rural Nebraska Middle School mid late 80s jr high highschool in the 90s. Regans policies hadn’t yet destroyed the education system. And the right wing was barely hanging on. History was taught really well
Obligatory butt-in from a European: I just wanted to provide a baseline for comparison.
Here in scandinavialand we watched The Wave (1981) in school to educate us on how easily a population can be convinced to support fascism.
This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55LkspO5ZU
We were shown this, but it’s not specifically about the war and more about racism:
Jane Elliott “Blue Eyes - Brown Eyes” Experiment Anti-Racism
I’m Canadian, I remember watching The Wave in school too. I don’t recall much focus on the “here’s how fascism and authoritarianism rises” thing, but there must have been something to contextualize watching that movie that I’m not remembering.
I think that there was a brief bit in my high school world history textbook about the period that mostly focused on our involvement due to the Great Depression, the US financial sector seeing something of an implosion, pulling funds from Germany — who was, at that time, dependent on US finance to keep industry running — and that exacerbating the political situation. I doubt that a lot of that would stick in people’s head for decades, so if you’re middle-aged, that probably wouldn’t be something people recall. Also, I read my world history textbook cover-to-cover, and the actual curriculum didn’t cover all of it, used chunks out of it, and I can’t recall whether the curriculum dealt with that section or was just material that I read on my own.
I believe that most of it dealt with the World War II era, which involved the US considerably more, rather than the interwar period.
I’ve read more myself, but that was later and probably would not be representative of what a typical American would do. And a lot of that was due to personal interest in military history, which focused on World War II, rather than German political processes in the 1930s.
I’ve taken dedicated coursework on the political situation in Germany around the time. I’ve read English translations of Mein Kampf and Zweites Buch. I’d probably be more familiar with political happenings in the 1930s in Germany than in another non-US foreign country — like, I could say more about Germany in the period than about Mussolini in Italy. I could give a rough outline of Hitler’s arc, the internal concerns that drove his base, and some of the critical moves that let him ultimately gain power. The early NSDAP and power struggles there and in the SA. I’ve read diaries of several German citizens (not just Anne Frank, but yes, her as well) from the World War II period to understand the wartime civilian experience, which probably gives at least some insight into what the typical person around the timeframe felt, though that’s a small number of datapoints.
But if what you really want to know is “would a typical middle-aged American (“40s and 50s”) have much familiarity with the political situation in 1930s Germany”, the answer I’d give is “probably not much”.