Tankies are right wing. Watch them make excuses for Russia and say NATO should pull out of Ukraine. Watch them say a Trump presidency is better than the alternative.
Tankies are factually left-wing. Their actions, however, sometimes play into the deck of right-wingers when they try to fuck around with the system.
Stalin criminalised homosexuality with a punishment of five years prison labour. Go ahead and repeat that fact on Hexbear, and see how many “radical leftists” are willing to make excuses for a homophobe
Stalin is a conflicting historical figure, who is neither a monster nor a savior, and so the way you describe him would differ depending on the angle of the conversation.
If the talking point is the rights of the LGBT+ people (or, really, people’s rights overall sometimes), there’s no excuse for him there, and I’m pretty sure Hexbear is not quite the place for a homophobic rhetoric.
But they may point out in other terms that under Stalin’s rule the economy got insanely boosted, the WW2 was won, and many megaprojects used to this day were constructed.
no they have right wing ideals. they just use left wing terminology to push a right wing worldview.
As in economic equality and support for disadvantaged groups?
Only to those who fall in line, else they get the tank again.
I’ve said this before, and been(more than) down voted for it, but I want more conservatives, more tankies, more anything I don’t outright agree with. People will say how bad person in their echo chamber is in their echo chamber.
The early internet was so scarce it was important to find like minded people. Today the internet is so widespread it should be the opposite. It takes 5 minutes to find a entire platform filled with people who all think like you. That’s how we got flat earth conventions.
I’m confident in my beliefs and opinions, which is why I want them challenged. I want to think critically, I want difficult rhetoric. I want my world view to be challenged. I want to be uncomfortable.
This only works when they engage in good faith. So no, you don’t want more tankies and conservatives, because most of them are incapable of that. Their worldview requires that they do not.
Idk… I’m not sure I want all their racist shit echoing around in here with us.
Plus all that paradox of tolerance stuff
That’s a hard pitch to a platform known to be unflinchingly rigid about maintaining their wind tunnels.
Problem is, they don’t argue in good faith, no matter what evidence or arguments you bring to the table no matter how long or short they’re right and you’ve just been subjected to brainwashing/propaganda.
Nor is it a debatable political position to be spread Nazi-ism or bigotry (which is what most right-wingers do)
Yeah, the marketplace of ideas doesn’t really work because people can just lie and other manipulative tactics, and people (yes, you and me too) fall for it (you are not immune to propaganda).
istg whoever solves this problem will win a fucking nobel prize.
It’s already solved. You kick the reactionaries out. It’s just that a lot of people struggle to accept the solution.
So you’re an authoritarian who wants to control dialog and define good and evil based on your own worldview? I’m anti racist, anti nazi btw before you start throwing strawmen at me.
So if you’re anti nazi, would you engage once in a debate on whether the jews really destroyed the German economy and Hitler was protecting his people, or would you tell them to fuck off?
I agree wholeheartedly. I’m a weird mix of politics, radically left and radically right and also sometimes the middle. The radical middle, but fuck centrists. I almost never find like minded people and that’s why I’m here. And why I get banned from echo chambers sometimes. That used to mess with my head. That was a long time ago. I just don’t give a fuck.
Damn straight! And I think I found the place that disagrees with me the most. Even Tumblr in its heyday wasn’t nearly as left wing
Tankies are right wing
They are not, but sometimes their actions can result in outcomes beneficial to right wing.
maybe in a more traditionally defined sense of the word, but neo conservatism is anything but equal to tankie based behavior.
Ehh not really.
Economically: The pro China ones can sometimes be pro market-ish. However, I’ve seen some of them talk about how Xi Jinping is making China have a more and more planned economy day by day. As for the pro USSR n North Korea ones, I’ve seen them range from hard anti-market to having teeny tiny sympathy for a very small, heavily state controlled market.
Socially: I’ve seen many trans ppl on hexbear. Aaaand I’ve also seen ppl claim transgenderism itself to being bourgeoisie manufactured fake science to distract the population from the real issue- class warfare. HOWEVER, I have seen none of them defending religious beliefs or ideals.
Therefore, the only thing similar that they share with right wingers, is that their political structures would over time evolve into stateful, classful, authoritarian systems.
Oh, and yeah- they both really love strongmen…
Your last two paragraphs explain how they are actually right wing, because the authoritarianism has already happened and they still support it.
“Planned economy” is just state capitalism. It’s not better than neoliberal capitalism, it just has a red flag, and tankies are fool enough to think that makes difference.
this is why left vs. right isn’t nuanced enough for real political discussion outside of a two party system
It’s why we can’t just go around believing everybody who claims to be a leftist. We need to evaluate the actual effects of their actions. If they are oppressing the workers as every state does, they are not left wing.
They were saying that there are more axes than left/right, and that the left/right axis is typically not one of authoritarianism.
See: libertarians and anarchocapitalists are absolutely right wing but are radically anti-authoritarian.
Well, if we’re interested in the ideals of the people, then yes the political compass is a thing that you can use. The problem is that when you drill down into right wing “libertarianism” you find landlords and bosses (EDIT: actually they’re pretty much right there on the surface). They are in fact about the freedom of coporations to own and control human beings. They are pro-slavery and neo-feudalist. That is not actually libertarian, that is pro-slavery. Right-wingers always are. So in practice, it’s just a lie.
Murray Rothbard himself said that “those who call us anarchists are not on sound etymological footing”. That’s a wanker way to say it, said by a wanker, but it’s clear he understood that words mean things.
That still doesn’t matter.
Sure people misrepresent (by accident or intention) what their actual political beliefs are.
But the single axis (or even two axis) political compass doesn’t really capture the nuance and especially the authoritarian aspect.I get the feeling that by your measure, nearly everything but collectivist anarchy would be “right wing” by virtue of some axis. At which point I don’t think it’s a useful way to frame things.
There’s such a thing as left wing authoritarianism too.
Joseph Stalin: famous right wing politician
There’s such a thing as right wingers who coopt left wing rhetoric and fool people into believing they are left wing. But anyone who says authoritarianism is left wing because it has some supposedly liberatory ideals is - and tankies will hate to hear this - an idealist.
State capitalism isn’t a thing.
Engels, Lenin and Bukharin all talked about state capitalism. Lenin decried it as not real socialism.
the erroneous bourgeois reformist assertion that monopoly capitalism or state-monopoly capitalism is no longer capitalism, but can now be called “state socialism” and so on, is very common
Lenin, The State and Revolution
That was until after the October revolution, at which point he seemed to think it was based and cool actually, and that it was definitely what the USSR was doing.
Reality tells us that state capitalism would be a step forward. If in a small space of time we could achieve state capitalism in Russia, that would be a victory.
Lenin, Minutes of the Sessions of the All-Russia C.E.C., 4th Convocation. Verbatim Report
This is around the time he stripped the soviets of their power and disenfranchised the workers in favour of a central state that alienated them from control over the means of production.
You know, like a capitalist.
And now tankies are distancing themselves because they can’t square the circle that their beloved
revolutionaryheroes were actually capitalists, and they pretend the concept doesn’t exist.So tell me, was Lenin wrong about this? If so, was he wrong twice? Why the flip-flopping on whether it was good or bad? Nobody seemed to dispute at the time that it existed, and an analysis of what happened shows that the USSR liberalised quickly. The bolsheviks were in effect liberal reformists.
EDIT: They weren’t revolutionary, I don’t know why I ceded that rhetorical ground.
That’s a hell of a gpt response and all, but no, state capitalism isn’t a thing and left wing thought has evolved in the last nearly 200 years. Except in the US.
Oh wow, you called me a bot and an American. Checkmate. No need to respond to anything I actually said, you obviously know how to get right to the heart of dismissing me so you can repeat your opinion without any actual argument.
HOWEVER, I have seen none of them defending religious beliefs or ideals.
Antitheism is right wing. People deserve to worship whether, what, who, and how they want. Left wing communities will always support religious diversity and freedom.
Yes, I wish we were more aware of the neutrality of dualities.
I injected ivermetcin infused raw milk into my veins so that I can get the REAL news quicker.
nice. You saw that new Joe Rogan episode too?
Broadcast into my retinas via neuralink.
It may have triggered my nose to bleed incessantly but I KNOW this is because I didn’t take my ONNIT & ALPHA BRAIN
That’s onnit o - n - n - I- t
It’s entirely possible.
And they’re always bitching about batshit things on conservative.
HOW DARE BIDEN GIVE MONEY LAUNDERER ZELENKSY MORE MONEY. HE IS SURROUNDED BY IT IN HIS CASTLE.
Like bruh shut the fuck up.
Lol did you see the one where they’re complaining about Lemmy “censorship” because their shit takes get downvoted to hell lmao
“reality has a left-leaning bias”
Yeah, and the sad (for them) truth is this is their free market action they love. I see your shitty opinion, I downvote it. Turns out they can’t handle that when they can’t obfuscate their unpopularity
getting downvoted is my kink though. I live for takes bad enough that they just bait people, while some others realize it’s actually just satire.
You must like what I say or it is cEnCoRsHiP!!
Ha ha yeah, lyckily they are kind of few.
i’m not conservative, by any stretch of the definition, though i do appreciate some of the more classically conservative values (none of which actual conservatives stand for ironically)
Nor am i progressive, or any flavor of communistic. Although that might change given enough problems with the US voting populace. Though not to the amusement of any lemmy users im sure,
Frankly, to be honest, i’m anti humanist right now, in my political satire arc. Take from that what you will, but if you take it the wrong thing, i will outlive you politically.
TL;DR im disappointed in everyone, you should’ve done better, you should have higher standards for yourself and your conduct, and you don’t and that makes me sad.
And what exactly makes you so much better than everyone else exactly?
Sounds like an edgy centrist. So either indecisive or a conservative pretending to not be political.
If you don’t like humans, drag would like to invite you to explore the otherkin community. Maybe you’ll prefer otherkin to humans.
This is too insightful to be a shitpost.
The presumes that tankies are not actually just right wing trolls trying to divide the left via extremism.
Nah, most tankies really are that dumb.
They always seem to toe that line.
How do we feel about libertarians?
They’re just Republicans with a bong.
Who have an issue with age of consent laws
That’s all Republicans.
Or a board member of Proton Foundation
Love this.
They’re at best misled on the subject of capitalism and at worst just another band of toadies for the fascists
Libertarian as in anarchist or libertarian as in “the age of consent should be lower”?
I feel like no anarchist actually calls themselves a basic libertarian, it’s almost always followed up by socialist or communist.
its because they’re not, anarchists are the grown up version of libertarians.
Libertarians discovered anarchism and were like “we have that at home!” and they really didn’t.
Fun fact IIRC; the term was coined by anarchists in France after the word “anarchist” got banned in press.
I use it when I’m trying to ease people into what anarchism actually means. Also gives me an excuse to shit on right “libertarians” lol
Depends on what they focus on. Drug legalization, mass incarceration and government overreach into the lives of the population like with the recent banning of porn? That’s a cool libertarian. If they talk economics at all, that’s just a conservative in dummy clothing
Twelve down votes right now lmfao
Stethoscope theory.
Tankies are just right wingers with zaney lines they drew themselves.
Trump is more left wing than your most left wing tankie.
I’ve seen it before, but I’m not completely convinced tbh, Tankies are authoritarian communists because they believe it to be the path forward and get rid of capitalism with the authoritarian part only being wielded against businesses/owners
Right-wing authoritarianism is all about control because racism, a 6000 year old fiction book and the rich
There it is. I was looking for the comment that contradicts the meme.
I blocked ML, then blocked Trump and Elon as keywords.
I don’t see this behaviour much anymore.
Someone took the time to make this comic. Don’t be that person. You’re better than that and should enjoy much more enriching things than exhausting your energy into the black hole that goes no where, but you’ve been socially led to think is somehow important and noticed.
Step 1. Start blocking the tribe’s.camp sites.
That’s really just sticking your head in the sand, in a way “pulling up the ladder behind you” in regards to new users. I’m not saying Lemmy needs to grow at an explosive rate, but we should still have healthy growth. And the Tankie Triad is against and sometimes straight up hostile to new users who aren’t tankies
And the Tankie Triad is against and sometimes straight up hostile to new users who aren’t tankies
I think it depends on what you’re saying and how you say it. I’m by no means a tankie but definitely really left leaning, as I learn more i’d probably even say leftist (I just can’t get behind the idea of a dictatorship of the proletariat even if I understand the reasoning) but I comment literally everywhere and have never had an issue with hexbear, .ml, or anything.
I think it’s more of a “know your audience” thing. I don’t go into a hexbear conversation firing off about “China bad” or whatever, I just say what I wanted that was relevant to their post.
And for those of them that wish to reach “the liberal” they should consider the same. If the point is communication then they should try to limit the name calling and anger, even though they have the understanding that “we” enable a system and in a lot of cases support a system that they see as committing some of the worst atrocities in history. Communication should be the goal, not the self serving attack that just makes them feel better (or “us.”)
Tankies when someone who defends any western action appears: fucking right wing nutjob
Other instances when someone who is traditionally considered left wing appears: fucking right wing nutjob
Right wingers when someone left of centre appears: I don’t think you’re right but you make valid points on xyz
Now which way are people going to drift based on those interractions?
You can’t complain about how splintered the political landscape is without ditching the “us vs them” mentality and finding common ground (of course with the caveat that fuck people who make discrimination a key part of their personality and people who celebrate oppression as clearly they aren’t reasonable people)
Right wingers when someone left of centre appears: I don’t think you’re right but you make valid points on xyz
I see you haven’t met my family.
I don’t think you’re right but you make valid points on xyz
this is 100% just cope btw.
to be clear, lemmy is the equivalent of being on like, far right community forums. So it shouldnt be surprising that people are very commie coded here.
Right wingers when someone left of centre appears: I don’t think you’re right but you make valid points on xyz
Lol this is just pure fantasy
I guess the username checks out.
Right wingers when someone left of centre appears: I don’t think you’re right but you make valid points on xyz
I wish I lived in your fantasy world.
You can’t complain about how splintered the political landscape is without ditching the “us vs them” mentality and finding common ground
Watch me. Right wingers have been taking steps backwards every time a compromise is made with them for as long as I can remember. The only common ground remaining is that we’re all mortal.
Brool story co.
You’ve met different online right wingers than me lol. Maybe you are just on left platforms. I think both sides have the full range. We just see nicer right wingers on a left platforms like lemmy. That’s the only way they’d survive lol.
Do you see right wingers on X responding politely on average? Leftists on X are also very intense.
I think it is more acceptable to be a raging leftist on lemmy. I think X promotes intensity. I think most people that would sit and chat in person would be capable of a calm and productive conversation.
You’ve met different online right wingers than me lol. Maybe you are just on left platforms. I think both sides have the full range. We just see nicer right wingers on a left platforms like lemmy. That’s the only way they’d survive lol.
this is 100% true, it’s just that the right tends to be more politically engaged and active, than the far left, because the far left is a little bit too busy swimming through its own shit half the time.
That’s a really valid point, my recent experience of terminally online radical left wingers has been lemmygrad, .ml, hexbear etc. whereas my experience of terminally online radical right wingers has been… I guess a few people in piracy/libertarian communities? which aren’t even the authoritarian right wing groups - I think it’s not unreasonable to say liberals are likely to be more reasonable than authoritarians, so if I’m coming across vocal liberal right wingers and vocal authoritarian left wingers (with the liberal left wingers being ignored/less vocal as they’re in the majority) then of course the right wingers are going to seem most reasonable
Meanwhile moderates on both sides think all of you need to desperately touch some fuckin grass.
Seriously I am very worried about the mental health of like 97% of the people on here.
Seriously I am very worried about the mental health of like 97% of the people on here.
im worried about the US voter populous, they seem to have left any semblance of intelligence where they were born.
The important thing is that you found a way to feel superior to both sides.
I don’t feel superior to either side inherently. I’m just sitting here in the middle seeing how absolutely brain rotten both sides can be.
Neither side can apparently see how fucking insane they sound because they both think they are objectively correct about absolutely everything at all times.
I’m not sitting here going “you’re both wrong” I’m sitting here going “will both of you please shut up and listen to the other side once in a blue moon for the love of God”.
I’m not even an “enlightened centrist”. I actually lean left, but because I’m not “left enough” I get downvoted for daring to call some of these delusional fucks out on their bullshit.
I’ll have you know at least 20% of my shitposts have been posted while I was outside.
So there!
My favorite activity is making controversial shitposts and then taking an hour long walk
Look at you! So trusting!
At least 102% of people here need more mental health support (margin of error at .5%)
Here. Everywhere. The whole damn planet is in desperate need of better mental health support.
Yeah, it’s just Reddit 2.0 over here now. A left-wing echo chamber.
I stick to tech and plants on here, and use it less than I thought I would.
I would argue it’s worse than reddit in terms of the average political leanings of users. I have seen overwhelmingly far far left users around here. The few reasonable moderates I’ve seen are getting downvoted for incredibly normal comments. Then I recently found the conservative sub and that place is just a mess. Even in their own space all the posts and comments are downvoted.
I am genuinely concerned for these people. Shutting everyone down and running away from people you disagree with doesn’t make them magically disappear. It’s just creates more division and less understanding at every turn.
It’s not even just a problem here though. Even in my own family the far left thinking and shutting out all who even slightly disagree leads to problems. I tried to warn them that Trump was probably going to win and they didn’t believe me. Being in California and surrounded by deeply blue/left people 24/7gives you a warped sense or reality. The bubble is so big around here that many people don’t even realize they are in a bubble.
I would argue it’s worse than reddit in terms of the average political leanings of users. I have seen overwhelmingly far far left users around here. The few reasonable moderates I’ve seen are getting downvoted for incredibly normal comments.
i think it’s gotten considerably worse since the election, which is to be expected, from both sides.
I need to go make a eudaimonia post i think.
Oh yeah, the conservative sub is ridiculous too…but it’s contained. The left shit is everywhere around here. It’s like oxygen.
I got sorta yelled at on here for “only attacking the left” and I was like… I can’t attack people who aren’t around now can I?
I have seen like one or two "right"comments in the sea of lefty circle jerkin that’s permeated this entire site. It really is as abundant as oxygen around these parts.
I’m still gonna stick around and attempt to engage in meaningful discussions from time to time, but I have already had comments deleted and been banned from subs for saying very normal and accurate things. Now I’m not surprised that I was banned from the Vegan sub instantly, but still. The mod abuse and censorship here seems even worse than reddit which is honestly kinda impressive.
May we one day find a home that isn’t inundated by extremism.
Sadly I don’t think that’s ever going to happen. The unfortunate reality is that both forms of extremism tend to slowly pull at people from the center over time. Even if we got a group of moderates around someone would get mad and get pushed one way or another more. And thus the cycle repeats.
It’s the classic “what radicalized you” meme. All of us are extremists in one way or another. We just haven’t had something push us over the edge yet.
