Now that we have final numbers. It appears that Harris had all the white & black support she needed for an EC victory. But Trump outright flipping Latino men and making huge gains with Latino women seems to have made all the difference.
What do you think?
First image is 2024, second is 2020.
Kamala lost because the policies of the Democrats suck for working class people. And the Democrats are in general corrupt as fuck. It’s as simple as that. Just as in Russia, if the system is super corrupt, better make it explicit by making corruption THE system. USA has been an oligarchy for quite some time. Trump 2.0 just made it explicit.
Ever cosider that there’s a reason why the latinos moved to the right?
Decades of under-education could only lead to shit. But even for a cynical asshole.like me, your country electing the best friend of the most notorious pedo, after he tried to overtake the previous election is quite something.
The culture war means more than that.
Democrats failed to solve people’s issues. That’s just it.
But Americans are in for a hard awakening if they think that in general Latin American population is progressive or left leaning. And that democrats have their guaranteed vote.
Each person is different, of course. And the average doesn’t change any person individual values.
But on average Latin American countries tend to have overwhelming conservative cultures when compared with USA/Europe.
This doesn’t negate any Latin American person who is progressive, of course. Just talking about averages and the reality that was shown by the polls.
In general Democrats, and any left leaning party, think that because they defend immigrants, immigrants will support them by default. This has been shown far from the truth. If someone have conservative values they will probably vote for a conservative party. That’s just it. One person won’t become progressive (as in stopping being sexist or transphobic) just because they moved from one country to another. An immigrant is a whole person with their own sets of values, both before and after they migrate, and won’t be reduced to “being an immigrant” when voting, specially once they are legally settled in a place and their residence won’t be at risk, they will just vote for their values. If they have conservative values they’ll vote conservative if they have progressive values they’ll vote progressive.
Many legal immigrants get pissed if you conflate them with illegal immigrants. They try very hard distance themselves from those people. Couple that with pervasive machismo and Catholic ignorance and this is what you get.
Actually beautiful comment. Thank you.
I don’t think you can answer that question from those numbers. They are percentages. The difference they make depends a lot on the total population in each group.
Kamala Harris lost cause she’s female. And didn’t
liepromise (that much) to voters. And had the richest 0.5% of US voters against her. This is cause the oldest wannabe-democracy of the world lost his state long ago.Kamala lost because the Dems didn’t show up. Again. Look at the number of votes for 2020 vs 2024. All those “undecided” and “obstainers” that didn’t just stay home. They didn’t bother doing a mail in.
Second highest voter turnout in the US. A difference of only 2,624,285 as per University of Florida estimates so far (the number is likely to go down).
This excuse is getting old.
One, you are assuming people who did not vote would vote dems.
Two, you are pushing blame to the voters who did not show up (and based on the lack of choice it is wild so many showed up)
Three, by pushing that blame on to voters you are almost asking for this to happen again. (By letting the dems keep being crap, pissing off voters, and getting people angry at their neighbours helps the republicans)
First, an explanation isn’t an excuse. It’s a reason. It doesn’t make it okay, it doesn’t place or shift blame, it just correctly points something out.
In this case, Trump broadly received the same number of votes as he did 4 years ago, while the Democrats got millions fewer.
There’s no assumption there, it’s just an observation.
It’s not pushing or assigning blame. Maybe they didn’t vote because they were lazy. Maybe they didn’t vote because they didn’t like Harris. Maybe they didn’t vote because they didn’t like the process by which she became the nominee. Maybe they didn’t vote because they’ve lost faith in the entire system.
Regardless of reason, and regardless of how any observer decides to interpret it or assign blame, the facts speak for themselves.
Your explanation ignores the root cause of the issue. People stayed home because the Democrats and Kamala failed to motivate them to go.
Yes, we are comparing the numbers to the highest voter turn out (which was last election). Biden was able to move 6-7 million more people to vote than Kamala, whereas Trump got about the same as he got in 2020.
Voters have to take some responsibility here. Trump’s base are all being con’d because they are ignorant on how most of the world works beyond their own backyard. Its possible that this is partly true for the 6-7 million people who didn’t vote this election cycle.
The issue isn’t so much that they didn’t vote for Kamala, but rather they did not have the ability to recognize Trump as the con that he is. Me being of average intelligence feels like this should have been easy to decipher.
Biden was able to move 6-7 million more people to vote than Kamala, whereas Trump got about the same as he got in 2020.
Trump got more votes then Kamala, that is how elections work. There was not 6-7 million people not voting (2.6 million delta from 2020), but more people showed up for the orange man and this blaming non-voters is just lame.
It’s really unclear, to me, what these tables are even saying. What’s each column?
Collumn 1 is Percentage that voted for the Winner (Republican 2024/Democrat 2020), Column 2 the Loser, Column 3 is the percentage of the people polled.
So row Latino men: 55% voted for Trump, 43% Voted for Harris, and 6% of the exit poll said they were Latino men.
The first two columns is what percentage each party receive for that particular demographic. The third column is the percentage that demographic made up of the total votes.
So the each rows first two columns should add the 100%. The final column should add to 100%.
These are national statistics. They bear no direct relation to the outcome.
They do, because no state exists in a vacuum.
43 states and one district didn’t matter this time.
Only seven states mattered.They all affect each other even when the electoral count make them seemingly unimportant.
I don’t see how.
Because whatever happens on the national level affects what happens on the state level.
I think you have it backwards. The national statistics are a result of what happens on the state level in aggregate.
The Dems would have won if they ran a campaign relevant to the struggling and apprehensive. They didn’t. They lost.
Every other Lemmy comment section told me that it was Anti-Genocide college students who cost Kamala the election /s
you’re getting downvoted as though you are lying. i saw people equivocating the uncommitted movement with pro-Trump on here since February. and now people are turning around and saying “no we didn’t do that that didn’t happen.”
like maybe it wasn’t you but it happened. be fking for real.
It’s never any 1 constituency to blame.
But maybe a campaign telling independents and centrists that liberals are doing genocide while not also running on saying, “Republicans will genocide more, however,” was a really bad idea.
I’m not sure you guys bear the moral responsibility for Kamala losing, but I do think there is an argument to make for bearing moral responsibility to helping ensure more death happened.
while not also running on saying, “Republicans will genocide more, however,”
They did.
These constituents are voters who helped deliver Biden the presidency in 2020, and who now feel deeply hurt and betrayed by the President’s decisions to continue funding war crimes and the mass killing of Palestinians. Arab American, Muslim American, and young voters, as well as people of conscience in Michigan and nationwide, are critical to the strength of the base. We cannot afford to have this base permanently disillusioned or alienated in November. The Uncommitted Movement Emphasis mine.
Pro-Palestine kids on campuses were incredibly fearful of a Trump reelection and ran their campaigns to influence the Democratic at least partially out of that fear.
Pro-Palestine knew the Dems were far more likely to win if they promised to fund domestic concerns rather than what has been widely accepted to be a genocide. Feel free to criticize the ratio of anti-Dem:anti-Trump messaging all you like, but it’s afactual to say anti-Trump didn’t happen.
Fair enough. I’ll admit that my comment was just a snide remark to those in a community that will jump at the first opportunity to deflect blame onto anyone but refuse to entertain a second of introspection.
As this chart makes pretty clear, white men are to blame.
More than one thing can be true; one things can be a subset of another.
White people voting for the right is the problem. Like how can we go on here and blame Latinos for shifting when such a high percentage of white people voted for him? Especially when you factor in the population size and not just % left or right.
I am ashamed of my peers.
Yeah, only around 2-3% of the white voters switching Dem would make up for the extra Latinos voting for Trump. On the other hand, blaming the voter instead of candidate is missing the point.
Less white people voted for trump in 24 though. The Latino bit is concerning because Democrats believed they had a demographic inevitability, and that appears to not be the case.
It shouldn’t be concerning, it should be enlightening.
But it won’t be. Not for the party leadership.
Over the past 40 years they’ve gone from being the champion of blue collar and union workers nationwide, and being able to take those votes for granted…to having the rust belt become the biggest swing region in the country (which their opponent swept this month). Did they take this as a wake up call and do more for the blue collar voters to win their loyalty back?
Nah, they just blame them and talk down to them, and tell them they’re too stupid to know what’s best for them.
In that same time frame, they were seen as abandoning the blue collar worker to court the minority vote, talking their efforts at helping factory workers and turning them toward helping minorities in race and gender. While they were actually doing this they did indeed appear to gain that loyalty at the ballot box. Of course once they had it, they felt no need to keep up the good work for these people and have slowly become a party who does nothing for anyone, and runs on a platform of essentially admitting they do nothing, but that their inaction is better than the other side, so they should still be owed votes.
Once again, this isn’t working out for them, and once again, rather than take it as a rejection of what they’re doing, no…it’s the voters who are wrong.
I despise the GOP as much as any reasonable person, and I firmly believe that many of their voters won’t like what they voted for once they start to get it…but there’s no denying that the GOP has a message, goals, and demonstrable progress toward them. And to counter that…the Democrats have…“I think things are good and I wouldn’t change anything. You should vote for me because I’m not MAGA aligned, and if you don’t, it’s your fault not mine.”
Arrogance is off-putting, and it appears it’s going to take at least a half century for the Democrats to figure that out.
Whole thread full of people blaming an entire race and sex whether that’s Latinos, Latino men, Whites, or White men. You ask a stupid question and you get stupid answers.
Since Trump’s number one message was about immigration, it makes me wonder how Latinos took that message. A bystanding white person might think that US Latinos should be appalled at the way Trump painted Mexican immigrants as criminals.
But then again, maybe Mexican immigrants who’ve been in the US a while look down on those recently arriving, or don’t want more of them to compete with. After all if you are a Mexican immigrant, you probably compete with other Mexican immigrants for work on some level.
So there again we have the failure of identity politics. It’s about simple “me” economics, not “we” identity.
Of course immigrants don’t automatically want more immigration for many reasons. They get more competition on the labor market and the large inflow of new immigrants increases the risk of them being a target of xenophobic policies as well. From a materialistic and egoistic viewpoint it’s quite irrational to be pro immigration if you’re an immigrant who has already arrived and is doig fine.
I live in the Rio Grande Valley. The prevailing sentiment I’ve heard from people regarding trump-supporting Latino relatives was that they seem to be of the opinion that trump is only going to go after the undocumented. There’s also a fuckton of anger at the word “Latinx.”
Mind you, this is anecdote based on my personal observations living in the area, and I make no claims beyond that.
Couple this with the Democratic Party moving to the right on immigration. Now the people who once had common cause with Democrats and would begrudgingly vote for them in spite of their misgivings regarding abortion and trans people had no reason to stick with the party and either voted trump or stayed home.
It also doesn’t help that we lost our NPR affiliate a few years back. The valley is really spread out and a lot of people get their news from terrestrial radio on their work commute. Now the only non-music programming is trumpist grievance screaming.
As a Latin American, the Latinx word just invokes unyielding rage into us, and marks everyone who uses it as a forever enemy
You have no say in our identity, even less with made up champagne collectivist class guilt shit
Like so. I didn’t even say I used the word, just that it was hated.
Oh no doubt in my mind it’s the same as the stockholm syndrome afflicted gay men who were all over social media supporting Trump. It doesn’t matter what the Republican party does or says, men in the US want to support it and delude themselves that they aren’t it’s targets.
After Donald Trump called every stripe of Latino, rapists and murderers, publicly, often and loudly, More Latinos voted for Donald Trump in this past election than have ever voted for any Republican candidate in any American election ever. Spin it any way you like.
I used to joke that America is a terrible place, full of narcisists, liars, and assholes.
Trump isn’t the cause of this. He’s just exposed how much those jokes are based on reality, and are no longer jokes.
He’s brought to the forefront our worst qualities, and confirmed the fact that no matter how much progress America has made, we’re all still just a bunch of racists and assholes. And this time it’s not a joke. It’s confirmed.
It appears that’s what won him the election. Yes turnout was down, but the demo percentages from 2020 to 2024 are not that much different outside of Latino voters.
And I must ask? How did Trump pull this off? And would Kamala have won without the Latino rightward shift?
Donald Trump doubled (+100%) the black vote he received in 2020. Across the board minorities saw change in putting Trump back in the big seat, as apposed to the disaster he will bring to them, and their families. People went through the pandemic, only to be hit with what’s felt like the largest peacetime inflation, which was not handled by the Biden administration. Normal people don’t care about economic numbers when their paying 30-50% more for milk, eggs, bread, and rent. When faced with more of the same with no real enumerated plan to get better, and back patting, they voted for different, come what may. You know which minority group didn’t break right, Jews (+5% 3.5% being the margin of error).
Trump gained 2% of black men, and lost 2% of black women. He made virtually no gains with black voters.
He gained literally 1% of them. I don’t know where this narrative of trump making massive gains with black people is coming from. All the data suggest at best, a very small gain from 2020 compared to the enormous gains he received with Latinos.
Because it’s easy to lie to the half informed with statistics.
True
Is 2% of black men equal to 2% of black women in raw numbers?
Biden handled Trump’s inflation expertly though. Everyone in 2021 said we would go through a recession, and we got a soft landing instead. And groceries are not 30% more expensive. They are around 15% above 2019 prices, not even that far out from historical inflation rates.
Trump won because of economic gaslighting and you and half the people on the internet still repeat these lies.
It appears that’s what won him the election
There’s hundreds of “what if” imagined scenario’s that would end up with a different result.
People keep claiming this without any context. He said a subset of those who enter illegally are the worst Mexico can throw at us. He never claimed all Latinos. This is hyperbole on repeat, and the left wonders why the right ignores everything they say about Trump.
It’s basically frustration based propaganda at this point. Don’t know if you recognize it.
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” - Dementia Felon trump
I guess it’s OK what he said because, hey, they aren’t all bad…
