Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) shares his message to voters in the Uncommitted Movement who are considering not voting in the presidential race over the Biden administration's handling of Israel.
So genocide is a single issue to you, like school vouchers or fema funding? I think that says a lot about you. None of it good.
edit: and please, downvote away if you dont agree, But notice how close the election is and how many upvotes this viewpoint has. 28 up to 70 down is what I see at this point. If Harris loses it will be because she flatly ignored this ~30% of of Dem voters.
I mean its likely trump will continue the genocide for people who managed to flee to the US by revoking the legal status of refugees given he seems to think the word “palestinian” means “terrorist”
The cruel calculus is that Netanyahu wants trump to win.
Do you hold your nose and vote Harris to deny Netanyahu another victory or do you roll over entirely for Netanyahu and let him have an assistant in genocide with Trump? What is the lesser of two evils here?
Netanyahu, at least, will be thrilled to hear palestinians are not voting for Kamala because of him.
I mean its likely trump will continue the genocide for people who managed to flee to the US by revoking the legal status of refugees given he seems to think the word “palestinian” means “terrorist”
That’s the dark calculus of it all. I would also point out the villain here is Netanyahu and the main reason to vote Harris here is to deny him a margin of victory. Who knows what plans Trump and Netanyahu have cooked up behind the scenes.
Many thousands of us dont vote for genociders of any party. “What part of that do you not understand”. Support genocide, then we dont support you, full stop.
The two party system is a broken system. You do not choose who you support. You vote against who you dislike the most. It’s a shit system, but wasting your vote is more akin to supporting Trump than voting for Harris is to supporting Harris.
My vote is one of many who think this way. When you stand alone you are unempowered yes, but when you have a lot of people behind you then you’re a movement and you have power. The anti genocide movement has power that Harris needs to win, Our votes are there for the taking, and its up to Harrsi to choose whether she’ll pick AIPAC or us. If she picks AIPAC and the destruction of our republic, then thats on her. IF the continuation of our system of government depends on bribery to do the murder of innocents, then its time to change our system of government.
Our system of government is fundamentally rotten and needs to be changed in general regardless of Harris. Not voting, resulting in putting a fascist in power isn’t how you do that.
If you think your only bit of “negotiating ability” is once every four years, you’re doing it wrong. Not only that, if you think not voting is doing anything to change anything, you’re actually just a straight up moron. Protests, local elections, pressuring representatives. If you actually care and aren’t just virtue signaling, do shit that matters.
So wasting the chance to pressure our candidate in a close election is moronic huh. Alrighty friend.
Protests, local elections, pressuring representatives. If you actually care and aren’t just virtue signaling, do shit that matters.
I like how you list “pressuring representitives” on your list of “shit that matters”. Right next to “protests”. …
I am literally pressuring our representative.
do shit that matters
Like you’re doing?
But yeah let me know how your letter writing and sign holding campaign goes in the face of AIPAC domination of our entire governmental system. I am sure you will be successful with such bold and timely measures. Hey have you tried a call in campaign to representitives’s interns? I’m sure they just need to know what you think in order to choose to do the right thing.
Right, but the trolley thing is apt here. There is no option to just stop using the trolley because it’s not safe, it’s a runaway trolley with too much momentum to slow down. All you can really do is decide which track it goes down, and pick the less lethal path.
Harris could steer the trolley so it doesnt hit anyone. She’s not trapped on an out of control trolley car at all-- She is driving the effing thing and has full control.
A vote isn’t an endorsement, you are not personally responsible for the actions of the people you vote for - otherwise trump voters would be in deep shit. Even if you vote for the best politician the world has ever seen that’s still not you doing the politics and you’re not responsible for it. The forces involved are simply larger than a single person.
A vote is a tool to be deployed tactically. Its powerful enough republicans are looking for ways to prevent you from having it.
Look at it this way: Netanyahu would prefer Trump win because he might get more support and expand the genocide of palestinians to US soil. A vote for Kamala likely won’t improve Gaza but it will deny Netanyahu things he wants.
Tactically, there is efficacy in denying the butcher of gaza the things he wants even if it doesn’t go as far as anyone needs it to. Why let Netanyahu win without a fight?
A vote isn’t an endorsement, you are not personally responsible for the actions of the people you vote for
I dont agree. When soneone says they will do something terrible and you vote for them anyway, you have enabled it and have some of that outcome on your hands.
Then you commit to never voting. If you vote for Bernie people will say “oh he endorsed joe biden, he is complicit” but you don’t get to choose the battlefield only the outcome of the battle.
Fundamentally a percentage of politicians will lie, or lack resources to fulfil promises. There is simply nobody on earth that can uphold the promise of never doing something terrible, even on accident.
I reject the idea that war crimes are always the only choice we have in any election. But if thats your slant, OK, why not push for a third option-- getting Harris to stop the shipments by applying voter pressure on her. The only time politicians care about what the elctorate thinks at all is right before a close election, like right now. Why are so many dems not pushing her to take a better stand than she has had?
I actually think stopping shipments is not going to achieve anything. Polling shows its popular (so I disagree that dems aren’t pushing Kamala, Biden, etc) but if Israel just changes arms suppliers its easily undermined. And we don’t even know if like there’s conditions on shipments like “we won’t use nuclear weapons on Gaza if the shipments continue” There’s just too much we don’t know to vote based solely on another country’s actions.
I think a better policy is to just take in gazan refugees and make it harder for hardline israelis to visit the US. Do the pullout from vietnam movie script. Of course this is a less popular policy and it is one dems likely aren’t getting pressure to do, even though its low risk and high preservation of human life.
Oh yes, I remember living in North Carolina and when Pat McCory’s cruelty to transpeople lead to him getting voted out, Governor Cooper just made it even worse because he thought it was funny…
No wait he actually expanded healthcare access for transpeople and repealed the bathroom laws.
Are you completely ignorant of the reality of the situation or are you intentionally trying to depress the Leftist voting block with doomer talk?
And you are on here doing Netanyahu’s work of trying to get as many palestinians as possible killed by focusing your Ire on what, Kamala Harris? We all know Netanyahu wants trump to win. And we all know how trump sees even domestic US palestinians legally here. He thinks they’re terrorists. Do you think he won’t try to deport them? Or do you agree with Trump on that front?
Why are you here doing Netanyahu’s work for him? He can come on here himself and bitch about kamala, he doesn’t need you.
He’d prefer leaders publicly support the genocide and would recognize the illegal settlements, offer additional support.
I also wouldn’t count out the idea trump and netanyahu are undermining peace talks - we have already seen trump push republicans to reject a far right border bill because he thought it would give him advantage and the fact that Reagan did something similar with the Iran hostage crisis.
The reality is that Netanyahu would prefer Trump over Biden or Kamala, do you deny this?
If/when Trump wins and he immediately deports all Palestinians, will you admit you were wrong? Or will you just double down (or are you just full of shit from the get-go)?
I wish everyone saw this buried comment showing your complete disregard and dismissal of palestinians so they cold easily see your comments are at best those of an attention hungry narcissist.
So genocide is a single issue to you, like school vouchers or fema funding? I think that says a lot about you. None of it good.
edit: and please, downvote away if you dont agree, But notice how close the election is and how many upvotes this viewpoint has. 28 up to 70 down is what I see at this point. If Harris loses it will be because she flatly ignored this ~30% of of Dem voters.
I mean its likely trump will continue the genocide for people who managed to flee to the US by revoking the legal status of refugees given he seems to think the word “palestinian” means “terrorist”
The cruel calculus is that Netanyahu wants trump to win.
Do you hold your nose and vote Harris to deny Netanyahu another victory or do you roll over entirely for Netanyahu and let him have an assistant in genocide with Trump? What is the lesser of two evils here?
Netanyahu, at least, will be thrilled to hear palestinians are not voting for Kamala because of him.
We already almost completely deny them. The US has accepted less than 600 Palestinians in the last decade. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/republicans-want-ban-palestinian-refugees-already-hard-get-in-us-rcna120892
so some 600 people will likely get persecuted if trump wins?
hostage situation huh. With both Harris and Trump saying they are about to kill people, but Trump killing more unless we give Harris our support.
That’s the dark calculus of it all. I would also point out the villain here is Netanyahu and the main reason to vote Harris here is to deny him a margin of victory. Who knows what plans Trump and Netanyahu have cooked up behind the scenes.
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What part of “Trump is actively sabotaging peace talks” do you not understand?
Please, refer to this chart -
Many thousands of us dont vote for genociders of any party. “What part of that do you not understand”. Support genocide, then we dont support you, full stop.
The two party system is a broken system. You do not choose who you support. You vote against who you dislike the most. It’s a shit system, but wasting your vote is more akin to supporting Trump than voting for Harris is to supporting Harris.
My vote is one of many who think this way. When you stand alone you are unempowered yes, but when you have a lot of people behind you then you’re a movement and you have power. The anti genocide movement has power that Harris needs to win, Our votes are there for the taking, and its up to Harrsi to choose whether she’ll pick AIPAC or us. If she picks AIPAC and the destruction of our republic, then thats on her. IF the continuation of our system of government depends on bribery to do the murder of innocents, then its time to change our system of government.
Our system of government is fundamentally rotten and needs to be changed in general regardless of Harris. Not voting, resulting in putting a fascist in power isn’t how you do that.
Allowing yourself to be steered by maneuvered into giving away your once every 4 years bit of negotiating ability is not the way you do that.
If you think your only bit of “negotiating ability” is once every four years, you’re doing it wrong. Not only that, if you think not voting is doing anything to change anything, you’re actually just a straight up moron. Protests, local elections, pressuring representatives. If you actually care and aren’t just virtue signaling, do shit that matters.
So wasting the chance to pressure our candidate in a close election is moronic huh. Alrighty friend.
I like how you list “pressuring representitives” on your list of “shit that matters”. Right next to “protests”. … I am literally pressuring our representative.
Like you’re doing?
But yeah let me know how your letter writing and sign holding campaign goes in the face of AIPAC domination of our entire governmental system. I am sure you will be successful with such bold and timely measures. Hey have you tried a call in campaign to representitives’s interns? I’m sure they just need to know what you think in order to choose to do the right thing.
Right, but the trolley thing is apt here. There is no option to just stop using the trolley because it’s not safe, it’s a runaway trolley with too much momentum to slow down. All you can really do is decide which track it goes down, and pick the less lethal path.
Harris could steer the trolley so it doesnt hit anyone. She’s not trapped on an out of control trolley car at all-- She is driving the effing thing and has full control.
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A vote isn’t an endorsement, you are not personally responsible for the actions of the people you vote for - otherwise trump voters would be in deep shit. Even if you vote for the best politician the world has ever seen that’s still not you doing the politics and you’re not responsible for it. The forces involved are simply larger than a single person.
A vote is a tool to be deployed tactically. Its powerful enough republicans are looking for ways to prevent you from having it.
Look at it this way: Netanyahu would prefer Trump win because he might get more support and expand the genocide of palestinians to US soil. A vote for Kamala likely won’t improve Gaza but it will deny Netanyahu things he wants.
Tactically, there is efficacy in denying the butcher of gaza the things he wants even if it doesn’t go as far as anyone needs it to. Why let Netanyahu win without a fight?
I dont agree. When soneone says they will do something terrible and you vote for them anyway, you have enabled it and have some of that outcome on your hands.
Then you commit to never voting. If you vote for Bernie people will say “oh he endorsed joe biden, he is complicit” but you don’t get to choose the battlefield only the outcome of the battle.
Fundamentally a percentage of politicians will lie, or lack resources to fulfil promises. There is simply nobody on earth that can uphold the promise of never doing something terrible, even on accident.
I reject the idea that war crimes are always the only choice we have in any election. But if thats your slant, OK, why not push for a third option-- getting Harris to stop the shipments by applying voter pressure on her. The only time politicians care about what the elctorate thinks at all is right before a close election, like right now. Why are so many dems not pushing her to take a better stand than she has had?
I actually think stopping shipments is not going to achieve anything. Polling shows its popular (so I disagree that dems aren’t pushing Kamala, Biden, etc) but if Israel just changes arms suppliers its easily undermined. And we don’t even know if like there’s conditions on shipments like “we won’t use nuclear weapons on Gaza if the shipments continue” There’s just too much we don’t know to vote based solely on another country’s actions.
I think a better policy is to just take in gazan refugees and make it harder for hardline israelis to visit the US. Do the pullout from vietnam movie script. Of course this is a less popular policy and it is one dems likely aren’t getting pressure to do, even though its low risk and high preservation of human life.
Thats a flat out lie.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/stop-us-arms-transfers-israel/
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/25363
https://www.commondreams.org/news/us-weapons-israel-2667435101
Are you replying to LovableSidekick? The grandparent post didn’t mention genocide.
Hey now. Vote for Kamala and you can get genocide, school privatization, and more underfunded climate disasters. You don’t have to choose.
Dems of 2024 have fully ingested the Republican platform of 2004. That’s why the Cheneys are campaigning for the Harris ticket.
This shit is so fucking dishonest. Go away.
Cheney is campaigning for Harris because Trump is so bad that even the Devil says “Wow, that’s fucked up”
Unfortunately, the switch is broken and everyone on that top track is getting railroaded no matter who wins.
Harris has no actual plan to protect any of the above. No more than Biden or Obama did.
Oh yes, I remember living in North Carolina and when Pat McCory’s cruelty to transpeople lead to him getting voted out, Governor Cooper just made it even worse because he thought it was funny…
No wait he actually expanded healthcare access for transpeople and repealed the bathroom laws.
Are you completely ignorant of the reality of the situation or are you intentionally trying to depress the Leftist voting block with doomer talk?
He did not. Transgender rights in NC were eroded over the governor’s veto. State officials are now exploring how to enforce the law.
Lie detected!
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/five-years-infamous-bathroom-bill-charlotte-passes-lgbtq-protections-rcna1638
https://equalitync.org/2020/12/03/hb2_is_officially_dead_and_gone_in_nc_heres_why_that_matters/
Nothing to do with state law
You took that out of context.
And you are on here doing Netanyahu’s work of trying to get as many palestinians as possible killed by focusing your Ire on what, Kamala Harris? We all know Netanyahu wants trump to win. And we all know how trump sees even domestic US palestinians legally here. He thinks they’re terrorists. Do you think he won’t try to deport them? Or do you agree with Trump on that front?
Why are you here doing Netanyahu’s work for him? He can come on here himself and bitch about kamala, he doesn’t need you.
Ah, yes, what Netanyahu truly wants is for us to, checks notes, be angry about Israeli state terrorism.
He’d prefer leaders publicly support the genocide and would recognize the illegal settlements, offer additional support.
I also wouldn’t count out the idea trump and netanyahu are undermining peace talks - we have already seen trump push republicans to reject a far right border bill because he thought it would give him advantage and the fact that Reagan did something similar with the Iran hostage crisis.
The reality is that Netanyahu would prefer Trump over Biden or Kamala, do you deny this?
Human Shields rhetoric. You’re blaming the folks in the firing line for the actions of the ones pulling the trigger.
I’m accusing you of doing exactly what Netanyahu would prefer that you do, no more, no less.
“Always go on the offense and blame the other guy for dying” is the IDF strategy, yes.
you’d be the one that knows it
If/when Trump wins and he immediately deports all Palestinians, will you admit you were wrong? Or will you just double down (or are you just full of shit from the get-go)?
His biggest voting block? Doubtful.
Voting blocks? What voting blocks? It’s cute that you think we’ll continue to hold elections after Trump wins.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_bloc
I will take 1000:1 odds, no cap, that we have municipal elections in 2025 and statewide/Congressional elections in 2026, no matter who wins
I know what a fucking voting bloc is, I was making a point.
Yeah, you know who else has elections? Russia
Check out prole’s recent post where they asked me to end my own life. They’re truly an amazing contributor to Lemmy.
Woof. What a swell guy
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I wish everyone saw this buried comment showing your complete disregard and dismissal of palestinians so they cold easily see your comments are at best those of an attention hungry narcissist.
Hey now. Vote for Kamala and you can get genocide, school privatization, and more underfunded climate disasters. You don’t have to choose.
Dems of 2024 have fully ingested the Republican platform of 2004. That’s why the Cheneys are campaigning for the Harris ticket.
Hmmm… I swear I just saw this comment word-for-word a minute ago. Almost like it was copy/pasted.
Very strange. I’ve seen it too. Must be a bug. I have no other explanation.