I once had a conversation with a coworker who was complaining that he couldn’t afford to go to the Dr for a fucked up back, I brought up how most 1st world countries have health care for everyone.
Dude said " yeah fuck that, I don’t want to wait to see a doctor"
It’s just so fucking stupid.
The “wait times” line was always bullshit. Many of us live in other countries, and we almost never have long wait times. That’s reality. The end.
You can believe us, as we tell you about our lives, or you can believe a scam artist who’s getting rich while watching you get sick and die.
also, “long wait times”, at least in Canada, are often a result of gutting being done to the healthcare system at the provincial level by conservative governments in an effort to convince people to privatize, and some idiots always fuckin fall for it.
It’s also exaggerated, in my experience.
It isn’t always exaggerated but generally lacks context.
Some types of surgery can have long wait times if they are non life threatening but can drastically improve quality of life which is very very frustrating.
The thing they ignore though is that most people waiting could not afford the surgery at all in a private system. Most people in Canada live very close to the border and American health care is more than willing to take their money.
It isn’t perfect and we should definitely be investing more in and trying to address problems but I don’t see how things like American HMOs are anything more then rent seekers.
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I never meant to imply that there can’t be long wait times, just that they are, in my opinion, exaggerated. I have had to wait for things as well, but having experienced health care in the USA, I could not really complain.
Canada definitely could improved, but it’s still night and day better than what’s south of the border, imho.
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The only counter-argument I have to that is the common refrain among many politicians who used to point to the American system as superior, which has only really started to focus on some of the cheaper options per capita in Europe in the last decade.
I just said that I believe it could be improved. My bar is higher than the USA, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m thankful that it’s better than the USA, having experienced both. They are not mutually exclusive sentiments.
Yep, same here. The ÖVP in Austria (a bit like “Republicans light” in the US, with a conservative view regarding social services and neolibs regarding economy, while mostly not being fucking grifters) are always trying to cut finances to the public health system, which makes the situation worse, and then they use the shit they caused as an argument to cut more services.
Good thing is, the old parties are on their way out because their voter base is dying out. Bad news is that instead of them we have a far-right party scooping up their voters. The Socialist Party, which is one of the old parties, is occupied with infighting similar to the democrats in the US between the left wing and the centrists, with the expected loss of voters because of the old people dying and the party utterly being disconnected from the younger generations, and the greens are occupying themselves with culture wars bullshit instead of trying to help the populace out. The communists are achieving local successes where they work to make sure that housing is affordable, while being utterly unvoteable on the federal level. And then we have a pure neolib party (NEOs) which is ÖVP light.
All of this makes me fear for the social peace in the country.
It’s similar in Germany.
The CDU/CSU, our conservatives, huffed a bit too much of their own supply and had brilliant ideas like reducing the public deficit by reducing infrastructure spending to zero. When that somehow started costing them votes after bridges started to collapse they decided to lean wholesale into the culture war bullshit by “engaging” the hard-right AfD by copying their rhetoric wholesale. Oddly enough, all this does is legitimize the AfD and drive voters to them. Currently the chancellor is busy trying to find out how unpopular he can get before the government collapses, championing policies that would’ve instantly ended careers twenty years ago. (And yes, this includes cuts to the healthcare system and “cost-saving” measures that everyone agrees will drive up costs.)
The SPD, our social democrats, have essentially purged all of their social democrat members and are now a business-friendly rump party with no discernible character or platform. The Greens have softened their ecological policies to the point of pointlessness. The FDP, our libertarians, were always ready to harm the country to help the rich; the last time they were in office they were so blatant about it they destroyed the governing coalition and are now deeply despised.
The one traditional party that somehow moved in a positive direction was The Left, whose Russia fanboys tried to spin off into their own populist party, which then fizzled out. This, and the fact that they still somewhat care about what the label says, makes them the only ones who haven’t fully enhsittified themselves.
Then there’s the new boy on the block, the AfD. Positioning themselves as a moderate conservative worker’s party, their actual policies only don’t declare foreigners (and foreign-looking people) to be second-class humans because that spot is already reserved for Germans who aren’t independently wealthy. Foreigners are somewhere below that. Due to an inexplicably effective social media presence and the general fecklessness of the established parties they’re rising meteorically.
Notably, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution only hasn’t designated the AfD as a known extremist organization because they immediately sued and the designation must be withheld until the suit is resolved. Several federal countries have designated them as threats to the democratic order. The CDU/CSU insists the can’t possibly be banned, at first because they were too small, now because they’re too big.
There are smaller parties that aren’t yet self-serving empty husks but they generally don’t have any chance of making it past the 5% hurdle because they don’t have the weight of tradition or the equivalent of a billion Euro advertising budget behind them. I personally am somewhat partial towards the Humanists because they cite scientific papers for each of their policies. It’s a nice break from the usual “our way is the only correct way because we say so”. Too bad they’ll probably never make it big.
At least you guys have Die Linke - we are sorely lacking anything of the sort, while the FPÖ (AfD for Austrians) is getting more and more public support, with the same inhuman rhetoric and the same inexplicably effective social media boost - US social media and their owners deserve the guillotine for messing up our societies.
I’m jealous of more than two parties (while technically we do as well, in practice they are zero impact)
We had to go through a time with only one party to get there tho, can’t recommend that move.
The strategy is called “starve the beast”.
If you intentionally break something while telling everyone it’s broken, you are technically correct, but still an idiot.
It’s usually done under the guise of reducing taxes or reducing the size of government.
Usually done by our Republican (Conservative) Party spouting generalities like “taxes are too high”, “government is wasteful”, “private company could do better”. Somehow they always skip the part where the functionality is important and the private alternative is worse and costlier (but at least their buddies get to profit)
Apparently voters fall for it, without consideration for what is being cut or whether it really needs to be
And somehow we also keep falling for “reduce taxes” even when that only benefits the wealthy, and when that’s actually the biggest source of debt
Same in Italy, hospitals don’t get enough found because the government (which is usually right wing but rarely center-left too) does not give enough money to hospitals and then (stupid) people say “look at Switzerland!! They do way better than us, we must do like 'em” or as some said a few years back “look at USA!!! With their private healthcare! They are doing good”
Yeah, good my ass, now they are suffering
Over 90% of Democrats want universal healthcare, along with over 60% of Independents and even 30%+ of Republican voters.
So, a huge majority of people in the USA want the same healthcare as Canada, UK, Japan, Poland… (huge list of dozens of civilized countries).
The Democrats have used this issue to win elections since the 1990s. The USA gives billions of dollars to people around the world, most of whom have universal healthcare themselves.
We’re the wealthiest of these nations by far, but unfortunately, the wealth is top heavy, and those wealthy people are paying US reps a gigantic pile of money to keep things as they are, so that they can make even more enormous piles of money.
That’s it, it’s pretty simple. IF ONLY we lived in a republic with representatives that work for their constituency!
That would be neat.
What about corporations? They don’t need healthcarr and they are people too!
I had to wait an entire year to get into a specialist to diagnose a tumor we knew was in my ear canal. Tell me more about how privatized health care is so fast.
What’s “universal” is that it’s fast if you have enough money and connections
What’s not necessarily universal is the “poverty via medical bills”
They don’t give a shit how long you wait here, just that having to wait there is why we shouldn’t do it
We all wait when it’s something new. Once you’re seen it goes at a good speed. That’s still a bullshit excuse for not giving Americans what they want. There’s always going to be cry babies that want to pay a chunk of their salary so let them. I think what really is the issue is they’re afraid people are going to finally do what they want in life and not be tethered to a crappy job because they need healthcare. You’re going to see a Renaissance people trying new things and I think it’s wonderful.
A lot of people I hear IRL complaining about wait times are also the kinds of people that go to the ER for a non-emergency. Of course you’re gonna be waiting a long time at the ER if the only thing you’re there for is you have a cold. That’s for serious, life-threatening shit snd triage would treat you the same whether you had to pay or not.
Recently had to go to A&E (ER) in UK.
I was seen by a triage nurse in under 5 minutes. I had a wound on my leg that was only not bleeding due to a tourniquet. Was sent to the waiting room. A women there was complaining they’d been waiting 6 hours for her kid who was running laps of the room.
I was seen in under 20 minutes.
2 hours later as I was on my way home having had my leg stitched up and they were still waiting.
I agree with the message, but why did you need gemini to make this?
No need to wait at all when for-profit insurance tells you it’s just not covered! So efficient. Best system ever.
In the American system you don’t wait because insurance just denies you instead.
Luigi is a motherfucking American hero. Make sure you donate to his legal fund if you can!
He didn’t even do anything, I was playing chess with him at the time of Brian Thompson’s murder
For real, I was there we were taking turns!
Is “playing chess” what they’re calling it these days? Giggity.
Yes. Right now, you wait AND pay for the privilege of waiting! An absolute win!
The only reason wait tines would possibly be lower in for-profit health care is because there are fewer people in the system because more people can’t afford it.
And we’re told that’s a good thing?
Probably more doctors too since they’re paid ridiculous sums in private practice.
Per capita the US has fewer doctors to patients compared to OEDC countries with public healthcare.
Had to look it up since that seems like a reasonable argument but the stats don’t seem to line up
Huh, that’s actually surprising but I guess explained by how expensive the degree is over there and how many people don’t want to get into debt over it
For-profit healthcare has an incentive to minimize costs
Public healthcare can have incentives like less wait time …. As long as we decide to pay for it
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Edit: maybe I assumed too much context since everyone is reading the opposite of my intended meaning
For-profit healthcare has an incentive to [maximize profit, typically by] minimize costs [to them].
They will pay medical providers as little as they can, which increases wait times. They do not have incentives to reduce wait times
Public healthcare can have incentives like less wait time …. As long as we decide to pay for it
Without the profit motive, public healthcare can choose to pay for better service , reducing wait times. Typical approaches for similar services would be setting standards on things like the max number of patients a physician can support. They probably won’t, because Conservatives, but they could
Rather than just downvoting you, let me explain why you are getting downvoted. It’s because that isn’t true. For-profit healthcare will both want to increase the cost as well as decrease the cost depending on where within the chain they are and where the money comes from. Are you billing the government through medicare/medicaid? Max that shit out and stack codes. Are you the provider trying to claw money from the insurance pool? You are forced to minimize everything or risk being rejected and not paid anything for services already rendered.
This notion that our for-profit system saves money and is somehow more efficient instantly breaks down the second you compare how much we spend on the same services compared to universal or single payer systems. The USA pays approximately triple per capita for Healthcare while also receiving poorer outcomes on average.
Not only that, if our system incentivized lower prices, then why is medical tourism a thing that Americans do to other countries? Like going to Canada to buy your prescription drugs or Mexico for dental work?
If you spent even one minute looking up the cost of American Healthcare compared to other comparable countries, you would have known how false your statement was.
Medicare and medicaid can and will reject you too tbh. In any case, they’ll bill the maximum they think will stick with the particular payor. Denied claims can be resubmitted with charges if necessary.
For-profit healthcare has an incentive to minimize costs
lol
the exact opposite is the truth
There is an incentive to lower overheads but when they can simply raise prices to compensate the incentive isn’t as appealing as the simpler, easier option.
I just had to wait for 3 weeks to get a refill on my daily asthma inhaler, one and a half of them without my meds. There was some sort of supply issue with my regular one, so had to get a new one prescribed. I had to deal with going back and forth with the pharmacy, doc office, and insurance company to finally get the approved brands/prior authorizations figured out. I’m glad my asthma isn’t too bad right now despite being allergy season.
I’m taking a wild guess here, but I’m guessing that folks in places with universal healthcare don’t have to deal with this sort of bullshit.
Kind of. I’m in Germany (but from the US), and while it’s leagues and leagues better than the US, I recently had a similar issue. I was prescribed a daily generic medication that comes in increments of 100, which had some supply issues. The name brand version comes in increments of 30, so I had to get my prescription rewritten for 90 pills instead of 100, because they couldn’t just dispense less medication than I was prescribed.
I ended up going two days without my medication, but it was still better than in a non universal healthcare system. I used the same medication in the US, and regularly had to skip a day or two around refills (once it took over a month to actually get my refill), plus I was only able to fill one month at a time and had to pay way more. In the US, I had to pay for: a monthly doctor’s visit, a drug test to make sure I was taking my medication, and a high prescription cost ($50-$330/month, depending on whether I’d reached my deductible and whether it was a generic or not). In Germany, I pay 8.50€/month for the brand name or 10€/3 months for the generic, no cost for doctor’s visits and no required drug test.
You have to wait under the current system, too. I’d rather not be paying $500/mo for the privilege.
Well if you wait, they still get the money each month. Win for them.
