A Norwegian man said he was horrified to discover that ChatGPT outputs had falsely accused him of murdering his own children.

According to a complaint filed Thursday by European Union digital rights advocates Noyb, Arve Hjalmar Holmen decided to see what information ChatGPT might provide if a user searched his name. He was shocked when ChatGPT responded with outputs falsely claiming that he was sentenced to 21 years in prison as “a convicted criminal who murdered two of his children and attempted to murder his third son,” a Noyb press release said.

  • thatsnothowyoudoit@lemmy.ca
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    2 days ago

    It’s all hallucinations.

    Some (many) just happen to be very close to factual.

    It’s sad to see that the marketing of these tools has been so effective that few realize how they work and what they do.

    • ameancow@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      few realize how they work and what they do.

      Seriously, you have no idea. I have spent some time delving into the current models, human psychology, neurology and evolution and how people engage with each other or other entities, and the problem is already worse than we realize, and it’s going to get so, so much worse, because our species has major vulnerabilities in our entire conscious experience, these things are going to reshape the way people engage with reality itself at some point and we should all be a lot more concerned and I’m an old man yelling on the street corner with a cardboard sign huh.

    • Vegeta@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      It really is sad. I often hear, “I even asked ChatGPT and it said…” as if that means their response is valid. I’ve heard people say it who I thought would know better, too.

      • pogmommy@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        The number of times I’ve heard that by people expecting it to win them arguments is incredibly discouraging.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Infuriating. It’s like an oracle. Except in late antique literature you can see that nobody that firmly believed in what oracles say (that’d be disciples making notes according to some procedure kept secret, probably involving mind-affecting substances, but also mathematics - you can already see how this is similar to LLMs), it was like visiting a known attraction, interesting - wow, I’ve been at the Delphi oracle, I’ve received an advice there.

          And today those herds of unbelievable fools are less sane that that antique public.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        State propaganda works by gaslighting you to think everyone around thinks some way, or at least a select set of people, and that you should adjust your behavior accordingly. It’s more complicated, some people are conformists, some are contrarians, but it works, there’s their own kind of working trap for everyone.

        But it still has efficiency that can be improved.

        With LLMs all your interactions are by default through such influence. They are averaging the bullshit, and information produced by them is fed to us all. That’s the opposite of what any talented or just useful person does, useful people try to increase the entropy, LLMs kill it.

        It’s a dream of thieves, bullies, useless people, politicians, that kind of crap.

        Basically “Us”, “1984” and whatever else has been written is being attempted via this tool. It’s not misdirected I think, but I also think it’ll fail, because evolution works in shorter feedback loops and those doing such things succeed in them, but fail in other directions which could use energy.

        OK, I should stop writing such texts, they repeat, don’t help with migraines, they are obvious and probably wrong.

        • melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          to clarify: shannon entropy not thermodynamic entropy, which is kind of the opposite?

          i hate language sometimes.

          I think it will succeed at buying them time to build their doom bunkers without us doing a revolution, and then retreat into them.

          they’ll die in there. closed systems don’t work and these people cannot cope with, much less manage, ecology, but we’ll die first. no shortcuts for those lazy good-for-nothing assholes who would rather just skip over the part where the living envy the dead and maybe miss out on human extinction. can’t half ass these things.

    • zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com
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      2 days ago

      It doesn’t matter how it works. Is the output acceptable?

      Sounds like no, and it’s the company’s problem to fix it

      • thatsnothowyoudoit@lemmy.ca
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        14 hours ago

        Ok hear me out: the output is all made up. In that context everything is acceptable as it’s just a reflection of the whole of the inputs.

        Again, I think this stems from a misunderstanding of these systems. They’re not like a search engine (though, again, the companies would like you to believe that).

        We can find the output offensive, off putting, gross , etc. but there is no real right and wrong with LLMs the way they are now. There is only statistical probability that a) we’ll understand the output and b) it approximates some currently held truth.

        Put another way; LLMs convincingly imitate language - and therefore also convincing imitate facts. But it’s all facsimile.

      • thatsnothowyoudoit@lemmy.ca
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        2 days ago

        Surely you jest because it’s so clearly not if you understand how LLMs work (at the core it’s a statistic model - and therefore all approximation to a varying degree).

        But great can come out of this case if it gets far enough.

        Imagine the ilk of OpenAI, Google, Anthropic, XAI, etc. being forced to admit that an LLM can’t actually do anything but generate approximations of language. That these models (again LLMs in particular) produce approximations of language that are so good they’re often indistinguishable from the versions our brains approximate.

        But at the core they cannot produce facts because the way they are made includes artificially injected randomness layered on-top of mathematically encoded values that merely get expressed as tiny pieces of language (tokens) - ones that happen to be close to each other in a massively multidimensional vector space.

        TLDR - they’d be forced to admit the emperor has no clothes and that’s a win for everyone (except maybe this one guy).

        Also it’s worth noting I use LLMs for work almost daily and have studied them quite a bit. I’m not a hater on the tech. Only the capitalists trying to force it down everyone’s throat in such a way that we blindly adopt it for everything.

        • pyre@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          this is confusing. did you think I meant you’re engaging in libel against llms or something? that’s the only way I can make sense of your reply.

          • thatsnothowyoudoit@lemmy.ca
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            2 days ago

            Really?

            I read your reply as saying the output is (can be) libellous - which it cannot be because it is not based on a dataset which resolves to anything absolute.

            Maybe we’re just missing each other - struggling to parse each others’ output. ;)

            • pyre@lemmy.world
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              2 days ago

              well I must be missing something because all I’m getting is that you’re saying it’s full of shit as a defense against libel.

              • thatsnothowyoudoit@lemmy.ca
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                1 day ago

                So maybe we’re kinda staring at two sides of the same coin. Because yeah, you’re not misrepresentin my point.

                But wait there’s a deeper point I’ve been trying to make.

                You’re right that I am also saying it’s all bullshit - even when it’s “right”. And the fact we’d consider artificially generated, completely made up text libellous indicates to me that we (as a larger society) have failed to understand how these tools work. If anyone takes what they say to be factual they are mistaken.

                If our feelings are hurt because a “make shit up machine” makes shit up… well we’re holding the phone wrong.

                My point is that we’ve been led to believe they are something more concrete, more exact, more stable, much more factual than they are — and that is worth challenging and holding these companies to account for. i hope cases like these are a forcing function for that.

                That’s it. Hopefully my PoV is clearer (not saying it’s right).

              • Natanael@infosec.pub
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                1 day ago

                Technically, in some jurisdictions a person who is widely known to be unreliable is harder to sue for libel precisely because the likelihood of reputational injury is lower if nobody actually believes the claim.

                • pyre@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  yeah but the companies pushing the ai themselves are definitely not marketing it as unreliable, otherwise it wouldn’t have any purpose. they knowingly push these as actual ways to find out information while putting tiny disclaimers that things might not be accurate to avoid liability which shouldn’t hold up in any sane court.