You should apply to be a politician because bullshitting comes so easy to you.

not implying they are right wing at all, that wasn’t my intention. Try re-reading it.

Nah, op is correct.

So the first comment in this thread did not say they were infuriated? Is that not what I was originally replying to? Is that not why I said I was unbothered by namecalling, to point out the fact that it is not infuriating?

I think YOU are missing the point of the first comment and MY point.

They said that they are infuriated by people name-calling them, somebody said “see how you like it” and… I wasn’t infuriated.

Insane that anti-vegan people (who have generally fallen for right-wing propaganda) are so bandwagony that you are getting upvoted for being so very incorrect.

I don’t think supplements are the go-to solution, but they are a solution that exists for those that are unable to formulate a nutritious diet beyond eating steak.

How is it even possible to afford $800 for insulin? It boggles the mind

Even if humans reduced their meat consumption drastically it would be even more inefficient to produce meat ethically – either that, or the prices of meat would rise astronomically which is probably a good thing, making it more of a luxury item.

Literally nothing you said contradicts what I said. It’s easy to buy a microwave hamburger for sure and others have carnist diets and don’t usually cater for vegans, that’s true. Thanks.

Weird that this didn’t affect me or want to change my diet at all.

I think there is a way to create ‘ethical’ meat through giving animals good lives and having laws around the ages they can be killed, etc.

However I don’t think it’s possible due to the costs and land required to do this, so unfortunately, I don’t think there is any ethical way to produce meat these days. The most ethical is probably hunting to prevent overpopulation.

it really isn’t that hard at all, supplements exist for everything these days and a vegan diet is a lot cheaper than a carnist one with the rise of meat costs.

if you are infuriated by somebody pointing out the cruelties of your actions then i think that is a reflection of you, not them.

I wasn’t familiar with that. When I wanted to see if I could buy ethical cheese I found one farm which reared calves with mothers, and read that although everything else they do seemed to be ethical, they did sell their male calves to be used for veal. That may have been incorrect and if it was, I was unaware.

The cheese was also extremely expensive too, like 10x the price of normal cheese.

Unfortunately - and this is the problem - it is incredibly inefficient to raise animals properly. Almost any ‘humane’ animal products that you can think of have very harmful practices embedded in them.

Firstly - the animals having the best possible life right to the moment of death would still allow things like lamb. Surely giving a baby the best possible life before killing it young is still barbaric?

Secondly - secondary animal products would still require harmful practices. For a dairy cow to produce milk she has to be pregnant / have a baby. Some farms produce ‘humane’ dairy which involves allowing the mother and calf to live together, but then it also requires them to sell the male calves to be killed for veal because… what else would a male calf be for?

And finally, onto the point of inefficiency. Do you have any idea how many chickens are killed every single day to supply our food system? You probably do, but you may be unaware of what that means - the Earth does not have enough land possible to raise these chickens, it is physically impossible and that is just one farm animal.

So the future of a humane world for animals either involves quality synthetic meat, or everybody is suddenly happy to go vegan, or more likely; everybody remains carnivorous and we continue to torture animals.

The problem is it’s incredible rare to find others that are willing to change their minds in return, so every discussion either involves you changing your mind, or the other person getting agitated.

A discussion in good faith means treating the person you are speaking to with respect. It means not having ulterior motives. If you are having the discussion with the explicit purpose of changing their minds or, in your words, “alarming them to take action” then that is by default a bad faith discussion.

If you want to discuss with a pro-AI person in good faith, you HAVE to be open to changing your own mind. That is the whole point of a good faith discussion - but rather, you already believe you are correct, and are wanting to enter these discussions with objective ammunition to defeat somebody.

How do you actually discuss in good faith? You ask for their opinions and are open to them, then you share your own in a respectful manner. You aren’t trying to ‘win’ you are just trying to understand and in turn, help others to understand your own POV.

“This is how conspiracy theorists actually think”

I’m not sure why this generalisation was required? Many ‘conspiracy theories’ have been proven to be true, and not ALL theorists believe ALL of the theories. It’s easy to discredit somebody when you label them something and then say that those that are labelled are idiots.

edit- downvoting something without replying to it is how you get an echo chamber

With this perspective, is death really a ‘meaning’ to life, or is it rather a ‘fuel’ for more life?

If it’s the latter, then that implies there is another meaning to life. There is a circle which keeps the wheel of life spinning - but where is the wheel going, and why?

The ultimate death of everything, perhaps, in which case I suppose you are correct.

The meaning of life (to you) could be to: “Just be here because here is where we happen to be.”

It’s not that deep, really. Some people want to have an impact, others just want to chill. I’m just curious what people’s first response is to that question and so far I have seen lots of interesting comments.

Come on dude. Just keep doubling down until you can generalise. What a weak approach.

It makes more sense that a god is a creator and not a omniscient controller, if we could grow life in a petri dish and set the scientific boundaries for that life - we would also sit back and watch what happens, for good and for bad.