https://prri.org/spotlight/hispanic-americans-evolving-support-for-lgbtq-rights/

The issue is not that there is some crazy 10% outlier of Hispanics who are not LGBTQ-bigoted, and I’m blaming you for not including them. The issue is that Hispanics are not bigoted as a majority-position bloc in the same way that you’re asserting that they are (to such an extent that it overrode every single other consideration and is obviously why they voted the way they did in the election, which you seemed to take as axiomatic and obviously why they voted for Trump.)

I am helping you, I think. You’re not open to accepting new information or having the flaws in your thinking pointed out, you perceive it as something else and a reason to argue with me and claim you’re just right and I’m being incorrect at you, but I’m doing it anyway.

Dude watch some of the videos where back in the 80s he was going to Nicaragua and Cuba and coming back and talking on TV about their socialist system and how much better it was than the US system. Search for “bernie sanders 1985” or “bernie sanders 1986” on YouTube, there are a bunch. He is a socialist. This whole “left of MOST Dems” thing is incredibly disingenuous.

Switch “back” to being an independent? He’s always been an independent. He ran in the Democratic primary one time, and almost won. That’s it. He’s an independent. You’re trying very hard to paint him into this Democratic-party corner, why?

He “really dropped the ball with Palestine” how? By getting on the Senate floor and yelling about military aid and showing pictures of starving children, repeatedly fighting for bills which would remove Israel’s funding and haranguing everyone to vote for them? That’s “dropped the ball”? How did he drop the ball?

What fucking falter, what are you talking about? Calling it “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide” was your red line, and undoes all the relentless effort he’s been putting in to try to stop the US government from helping Israel with their horrifying crimes?

I literally just don’t get this. The AOC thing is incredibly stupid, too. I talked more about it here.

If LGBT+ people voted as a large block for Trump because

… and then you filled in your theory for what the “because” was that caused the Latino community to vote for him.

If your “because” were completely accurate, I’d agree with you. But it’s not. And since it’s not, and because you’re implying that every single religious Latino as a bloc has that hateful attitude and using that as your jumping off point, it’s racist.

Anything else I can help you with?

🙄

There is a big narrative that loves to pick off the left-est of the left people in the US government, and come up with various bullshit reasons to criticize them.

You’ll never hear this kind of argument applied anywhere else. Like, if Beto O’Rourke said Gaza was a genocide, you wouldn’t see all these Lemmy comments saying “TOOK YOU FUCKING LONG ENOUGH YOU PIECE OF SHIT” or whatever. When that handful of countries said they wouldn’t do sporting events with Israel, I didn’t see anyone commenting “YEAH WHERE WAS THIS TWO YEARS AGO WHERE ARE THE FUCKING WAR CRIMES CHARGES” or anything like that. The extensive nitpicking is only aimed at people like AOC and Bernie who are significant leftist voices in government.

If you want to know what Bernie’s been actually saying about Gaza, this is it:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uVDPXtnTXUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFhcSlrJcAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dd4cg-t8j8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_AWLQ4gk4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZreokpA_s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRrHfsqg990

And so on. He’s been doing what most of Lemmy would like to see someone in the US Congress doing: Yelling about Israel, what a fucking horror it is, and trying to stop US military aid. This extensive nailbiting about him calling it “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide” is just going to get smoothly replaced by these users with some other reason to nailbite about him, definitely not with any enthusiasm or support for him. I guarantee it.

Yeah, pretty much.

Also:

Here he is in 1988:

https://www.alternet.org/2015/07/1988-bernie-sanders-condemned-israeli-attacks-palestinians-reprehensible

It seems kind of tame by today’s standards. I think that has more to do with the fact that he’s super-Jewish, he was completely comfortable with talking about socialism and Cuba and things in a way that was so far off the left side of the map at the time that it was out of the building. But by the standards of that time it was absolutely insane. This was years before the Rodney King jury said “not guilty,” this was back when we were doing our own Gaza-lite operations in Central America, it was a time when America could do no wrong and anyone who didn’t like us was a terrorist. He actually talks about that in one other interview which I think I posted in another comment, how he met with the Sandinistas and how the media in the US made it totally impossible for them to get any message that was at all friendly to them to anybody in the US.

More recently, here’s a video of him yelling (for the however-manyth time) recently on the Senate floor about what a fucking horror we are enabling in Gaza, showing pictures. “This is an effort to destroy a people.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLM_aD1cwxI

He is literally a socialist.

Edit: Here he is in 1985: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phTKpMh5jQI

He’s been speaking out against Israel since the 1980s. Not just speaking, but standing up in congress and yelling about it. There was just a little artificial construction where him calling it “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide” represented a reason why he was actually pro Israel, which was always a fucking bonkers take on it.

Honestly, when you’re fighting for what’s right, it makes it more bearable when it’s hard. There’s not this extensive hesitation or heavy weight, like when you’re struggling with some frustrating task that isn’t really what needs to be done in the first place.

There is a big narrative that loves to pick off the left-est of the left people in the US government, and come up with various bullshit reasons to criticize them. You’ll see a bunch of them down below in this thread, being negative about Bernie.

You’ll never hear this kind of argument applied anywhere else. Like, if Beto O’Rourke said Gaza was a genocide, you wouldn’t see all these Lemmy comments saying “TOOK YOU FUCKING LONG ENOUGH YOU PIECE OF SHIT” or whatever. When that handful of countries said they wouldn’t do sporting events with Israel, I didn’t see anyone commenting “YEAH WHERE WAS THIS TWO YEARS AGO WHERE ARE THE FUCKING WAR CRIMES CHARGES” or anything like that. The extensive nitpicking is only aimed at people like AOC and Bernie who are significant leftist voices in government.

If you want to know what Bernie’s been actually saying about Gaza, this is it:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uVDPXtnTXUw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFhcSlrJcAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dd4cg-t8j8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_AWLQ4gk4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBZreokpA_s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRrHfsqg990

And so on. He’s been doing what most of Lemmy would like to see someone in the US Congress doing: Yelling about Israel, what a fucking horror it is, and trying to stop US military aid. This extensive nailbiting about him calling it “ethnic cleansing” instead of “genocide” is just going to get smoothly replaced by these users with some other reason to nailbite about him, definitely not with any enthusiasm or support for him. I guarantee it.

Oh! So you weren’t talking about the whole religious Hispanic community. You were talking about the subset of it who saw through Trump’s performative embrace of the gay community and attempts to campaign on the exact opposite of what you said, were deeply aware of his actual actions on LGBTQ+ issues despite the fact that they’re not part of that community directly and none of their media ever talked about it, managed to ignore all the propaganda telling them that he valued family and economic issues which were much more directly important to them directly, and decided to vote for him knowing full well that he was going to go after a bunch of people they didn’t really have contact with even though nothing they ever did come into contact with ever reminded them of that reality. And specifically of course excluding from that grouping anyone who voted for him for some other reason, like that their families were struggling with groceries and their media was assuring them that he would fix it.

Yeah, fuck those guys. I thought somehow that instead of singling them out very specifically for their very specific actions and motives, you were painting the whole religious Hispanic community. I apologize for not reading more deeply into what you actually meant.

It wouldn’t be racist if you had said they were bigoted (Although I do think it would be wrong, I think the issue is more awareness and education than it is just innate bigotry. They obviously didn’t fully know what Trump was about, by definition, or they wouldn’t have voted for him.)

Since you said the whole grouping is hypocritical and lacks compassion, that’s the racist part. IDK how you can’t see that, but it seems like you’re just determined not to see it for whatever reason.

“The lack of compassion and hypocrisy among the blacks came back to bite their own community in the ass”

“The lack of compassion and hypocrisy in the LGBTQ+ community came back to bite their own community in the ass”

See the problem now?

It’s not automatically racist just to discuss significant problems in a particular racial community in a direct fashion of course… but just dismissing Latino support for Trump as a problem of “it’s because they are bigoted hypocrites QED” is a bunch of racist crap.

My guy this is racist as fuck

Correct, that kind of thing has happened before. That would be a shockingly brazen coverup.

I don’t think he is useful (in either sense of the word). The whole format of Reddit sort of lends itself to long-form discussion and people disagreeing with their masters about things, and I think they will want to get rid of that whatever he tries to do to make it “compliant.”

“Why don’t they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get educated about it”

Fair enough. I didn’t misunderstand anything, I just wasn’t real overt about responding to it directly I guess.

As I see it, there are two possibilities:

• They give the body back to the family and the legs are fine
• They give it but the legs are broken, or they cremate it first, or they refuse to give it back, or basically anything other than that first thing

In the second case, there’s fuckery by the coroner. In the first case, there’s not (which of course doesn’t mean he wasn’t lynched of course). I just don’t get how trust for the coroner or police needs to enter into that equation in any capacity. Sure, if they fuck with the body or have some ridiculous excuse for why the legs were broken, then it also means that the coroner is dirty and trying a coverup for some horrendous reason. But it’s not like the original question is going to stay as an unknowable thing.

People have this kind of knee-jerk “the system is going to lie about everything” reaction which sometimes makes them kind of throw up their hands on the concept of every getting to the bottom of anything, and I think that’s insidious, especially when they start inserting all kinds of speculation and saying it’s a possibility so who knows. We’re going to be able to tell if his legs were broken or not with a pretty high degree of certainty at some point in the pretty near future. I feel like it’s good to hold onto that ability to make sense of the world instead of retreating into nihilism and just assuming everyone’s probably lying and giving up. Doesn’t that make some sense?

What I said was there is entirely the possibility of “Oops! His body went to the furnace instead”, or “oh no! The body was mishandled and fell”, or a whole variety of other things.

I mean, there’s a possibility that Mossad killed Charlie Kirk. And sure, if something happens that leads towards that conclusion then it’ll be extremely revealing about whether or not that’s a reasonable conclusion.

IDK what type of argument you’re looking to have here which leads you to keep repeatedly emphasizing your side of this thing, but I am planning to stop now on my side. Have a blessed day.