One day I want to play an all-arcane-full-casters party just to see if encounters can be nuked fast enough to make up for the lack of healing. Counterspell? Tough luck, we have four people who can counterspell your counterspell
Meeting anything with a natural anti-magic field would basically be a death sentence though
I think spirit guardians qualifies for the “deals damage” part of breaking sanctuary, unfortunately. An all clerics or all clerics and paladins team to do Descent Into Avernus would be really funny though
Even without all arcane casters, once my wizard had 9th and 10th level spells, and Improved Initiative, and Epic Initiative, for a whopping +7 to their initiative rolls, which is basically an “I go first,” button. Then the hard part was deciding which way I was going to blast them into oblivion.
Hell I “one-shotted” the first Lich we ran into with a perfect roll on my Time Stop, and decent rolls on the ensuing 7 Delayed Blast Fireballs. I stopped using that particular combo in caves after that, since it collapsed the one we were in, and we had to ensure the lich was dead with Xorn Movement.
At 10th level spells, casters can simply make 10th level versions of any spell of lower level, and you can make literally any spell you’d like. If you make it too powerful for your current abilities, and attempt to cast it, it kills you, and IIRC that’s one of the few ways to permanently kill an epic level wizard. We die all the time, have Contingencied True Resurrections prepared for every time you get in combat. They last for years so this can be done well in advance.
I believe that those are referred to in 5th edition as the casters that broke the weave of magic and one of them accidentally killed Mystra for a second or two.
Friendly reminder to DMs that Counter Spell is a reaction, so after your fireball gets counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterspelled you can just have some other mook cast another.
I mean, you shouldn’t counter-counter-counter-counterspell if you can help it. But having multiple casters in an encounter adds some more strategizing, especially if you have a scenario where a player might want to hold their reaction for something else.
Also, players have to be able to see the caster casting the spell, and several powerful damaging spells do not require sight. Fire storm, sunbeam, circle of death, and cone of cold all work just as well inside heavy obscurement like a fog cloud, but counterspell doesn’t
I think your average murder hobos would get themselves killed pretty quickly in this game. However if you had a group that was willing to meta-game a little to spread out the caster types you could make it work. You’d likely need to plan each encounter to make sure people knew their role in the fight. Making it to level 5 would probably be the hardest part of the game
Definitely. Shield is already an incredibly useful spell, but with no dedicated frontliners (and I do think that someone running a bladesinger would be rather against the spirit of this idea) you’re gonna need to preserve every hit point you’ve got, so everyone better be grabbing that. If you’re all already agreeing to stick to just two classes, or maybe three if you include warlocks, then the meta-strategising is already in the room. Plus you’ve likely got at least a couple of high-int wizards who can very justifiably be obsessive planners in-character.
All that said, I have run 5E games with some very unbalanced parties and it has geeeeenerally worked out fine anyway. It was funny when six players showed up and the highest charisma score between them was 12. They just had to get creative in social challenges.
It also depends on strict you are about the rule. A divine soul sorcerer/celestial warlock comes with minor healing. I’d also want the team to have familiars and summons to try to eat some damage until you get the really good crowd control effects
One day I want to play an all-arcane-full-casters party just to see if encounters can be nuked fast enough to make up for the lack of healing. Counterspell? Tough luck, we have four people who can counterspell your counterspell
Meeting anything with a natural anti-magic field would basically be a death sentence though
I had the thought to play a full party of multiclass clerics that could all cast spirit guardians and sanctuary
I think spirit guardians qualifies for the “deals damage” part of breaking sanctuary, unfortunately. An all clerics or all clerics and paladins team to do Descent Into Avernus would be really funny though
Even without all arcane casters, once my wizard had 9th and 10th level spells, and Improved Initiative, and Epic Initiative, for a whopping +7 to their initiative rolls, which is basically an “I go first,” button. Then the hard part was deciding which way I was going to blast them into oblivion.
Hell I “one-shotted” the first Lich we ran into with a perfect roll on my Time Stop, and decent rolls on the ensuing 7 Delayed Blast Fireballs. I stopped using that particular combo in caves after that, since it collapsed the one we were in, and we had to ensure the lich was dead with Xorn Movement.
10th level spell? What sort of campaign is that?
Epic Level/ God Level Campaign.
3.0/3.5 had those rules. It was fun
At 10th level spells, casters can simply make 10th level versions of any spell of lower level, and you can make literally any spell you’d like. If you make it too powerful for your current abilities, and attempt to cast it, it kills you, and IIRC that’s one of the few ways to permanently kill an epic level wizard. We die all the time, have Contingencied True Resurrections prepared for every time you get in combat. They last for years so this can be done well in advance.
I believe that those are referred to in 5th edition as the casters that broke the weave of magic and one of them accidentally killed Mystra for a second or two.
Friendly reminder to DMs that Counter Spell is a reaction, so after your fireball gets counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counterspelled you can just have some other mook cast another.
I mean, you shouldn’t counter-counter-counter-counterspell if you can help it. But having multiple casters in an encounter adds some more strategizing, especially if you have a scenario where a player might want to hold their reaction for something else.
strate-gazing? what the hell is that
I’m pretty sure they’re talking about astronomy. Wizards are supposed to do that right?
Also, players have to be able to see the caster casting the spell, and several powerful damaging spells do not require sight. Fire storm, sunbeam, circle of death, and cone of cold all work just as well inside heavy obscurement like a fog cloud, but counterspell doesn’t
I think your average murder hobos would get themselves killed pretty quickly in this game. However if you had a group that was willing to meta-game a little to spread out the caster types you could make it work. You’d likely need to plan each encounter to make sure people knew their role in the fight. Making it to level 5 would probably be the hardest part of the game
Definitely. Shield is already an incredibly useful spell, but with no dedicated frontliners (and I do think that someone running a bladesinger would be rather against the spirit of this idea) you’re gonna need to preserve every hit point you’ve got, so everyone better be grabbing that. If you’re all already agreeing to stick to just two classes, or maybe three if you include warlocks, then the meta-strategising is already in the room. Plus you’ve likely got at least a couple of high-int wizards who can very justifiably be obsessive planners in-character.
All that said, I have run 5E games with some very unbalanced parties and it has geeeeenerally worked out fine anyway. It was funny when six players showed up and the highest charisma score between them was 12. They just had to get creative in social challenges.
Simply bring a necromancer if you’re that worried about meat shields - or I guess bone shields.
Or a summoner. Monster Summoning spells are crazy useful for flanking or meat shields.
Oh and someone has to have Improved Familiar to have a pseudo dragon familiar so that they can get flanking damage from “themselves.”
It also depends on strict you are about the rule. A divine soul sorcerer/celestial warlock comes with minor healing. I’d also want the team to have familiars and summons to try to eat some damage until you get the really good crowd control effects
If the other two replies to this take what they mentioned we’re most of the way to a coherent party by now
I’ll bring the abjurations specialist
Fine, I’ll pick War Mage
Implying the game won’t get impossible after everyone learns Fireball
To whom it may combust
That’s evil.