“Unpopular opinion but do folks honestly not understand how those borders shifted? Mostly because a bunch of countries tried to murder the Jews” You can’t genuinely be this conceited. How about Israel’s “independence” which was a massive ethnic cleansing done by Jewish terrorists who were all non native from Europe and would avoid native Palestinan Jews because they found them “too weak” David Ben gurion the founder of Israeli was apart of it and was well aware what he was doing was colonisation. The stern gang and lehi group then became Israels army and government, with their teaching still very in place. https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine#%3A~%3Atext=The+main+terrorist+groups+were%2CFreedom+of+Israel)%20or%20LHI.)%20or%20LH

https://www.progressiveisrael.org/ben-gurions-notorious-quotes-their-polemical-uses-abuses/

It’s ironic how you use this projection about others getting their info from tiktok when come unsourced, arrogant and wrong, it’s impossible not to think you are brainwashed or an awful human being and uneducated. All of this is to say, Israel has a clear greater Israel plan even literally showing a map of Israel pre Oct 7 of them owning west bank and Gaza https://www.commondreams.org/news/netanyahu-map

So suprise suprise when Israeli leaders talk about “claiming greater Israel” we gotta fight back and dismantle that nation. You and you’re people oppressed the Jews for 2 thousand years, to the middle east in 1930s the Jews were colonisers no different to the Brits acting with imperialist intentions with Israel capitalising on the holocaust to form some special protected minority status no other people on earth have even tho the Jews are ABSOLUTELY not the most victimised people in the planet or even they era of history. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20241120-smotrich-has-confirmed-that-the-quest-for-greater-israel-is-real/ https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli-paper-op-ed-claims-south-lebanon-northern-israel?amp

That’s all it is, we don’t call the Europeans Romans and it’s the same with the middle east, did Arabs migrate around the world and we share some genetics with them? Sure but in reality it’s in the minority apart of the vast diversity of the genetics of one of the most diverse and ancient regions on the planet. My father used to tell me our ancestors were all Arabs who conquered into sindh and Punjab and settled there, which may or may not be true but in reality when I checked, it was below %5, my ancestors weren’t just Arabs, my ancestors were also Hindus, Sikhs, Jain’s, Zoroastrians, perhaps some Hellenism in there too along with many many many other cultures and religions, which is like a mosaic. Our eyes should be opened now that the western media and imperialism never died in ww1 or ww2 but in reality just changed forms. Do your own research, find primary sources and dig deep. Don’t become a nuthead type conspiracy theory but there is a lot of information and misinformation out there so critical analysis of information is one of the most vital skills you can have now

Palestine was a place for Jews to live in peace and personally the whole religion war is a smokescreen. You look at the stats you look at the footage and historical texts and historic Palestine was a multi faith and cultural society recognition as important to many faiths. It’s not my place to say but even after all this I wholeheartedly accept Jews in Palestine BUT the Jewish supremcist apartheid state is all of the most evil aspects of European colonialism and nazi Germany/american manifest destiny into one shitty little state. Israel has done nothing for anti semitism and may be the thing that resets the clock back to post Roman conquest levels of Jewish hatred if things don’t change. I don’t want that, all humans are humans and no people are a monolith. I pray for a multi faith Palestine with no supremacy of any people (tho Jewish right to return should be revoked and Palestine right to return established as their actually refugees while vast amount of Jews coming to Israel to settle are dual citizens.

Thing is, most likely Palestinians are descendants of Jews who lived in Palestine, who were once the caanites of Canaan and so on and so forth. The Jews who over time converted to islam, (but not all, Christians and Jews still very much exist tho not sure about numbers) before 1918 the Jewish population was a 56,000 thousand and many of those were immigrants by 1939 they were almost half a million

No it didn’t. Most of the Jews came after the Palestine nakba/massacre which made Jews feel unsafe in the middle east (jeez I wonder why, but also not their fault.) the Jews who came before the independence were all European terrorist who built armed settlements and militas Far away from Palestinans and Palestinan Jews as they didn’t support them.

That’s what I said

It absolutely is. Tho to be honest it was my beginning foray into history since then, my new passion is bronze age middle eastern/Indus history. But of course the glory of Rome is unlike many others

It’s insane how they can kill like 200,000 Palestinian and still cry about getting a hostage agreement, the fact they think half are still alive tells you everything you need to about hamas and everything you need to know about Israel having tens of thousands of prisoners on top of killing 200,000+ Palestinian, attacking Lebanon, Iraq, iran and now invading a completely fresh regime in Syria like wtf

They both hate Jews and love the Jewish state. I never understood this.

Honestly you are right as someone who started his love for history with the Romans, I didn’t know this was a debate, so I did some research and to me personally the end of the Roman empire was 476ad with the last western Roman empire abdicating. Or perhaps the fall of Constantinople

Among which historians specifically? I’m unaware of any serious debate here other than propagandists using the name second Rome, third Rome, ceaser etc. sorry buddy Roman empire collapsed when the franks, Visigoths, ostrogoths and Huns toppled the west. Wanna know why it ended then? Byzantine had split long before into a separate entity to distance itself from Rome and when it collapsed it chugged along with it’s greek orthodox ideals

Id barely call the byzantines the Romans. They were a greek led empire