I raise chickens to eat. They don’t need to be raised in a torture chamber so they can be feed, bred or slaughtered on an assembly line. You only need that if need that so people can eat chicken for cheaper then veggies and for every meal.
You could also have chickens just live as part of an ecosystem and never kill them yourself. They actually don’t need to be tortured to exist
Yes of course! Many farmers actually love their animals and take good care of them. And yes, some people have chicken, gooses, or some other farm animals as pet. For some, such as donkeys, they are rised despite a lost of material interest ; mostly to maintain exsitant some animals who served us since forgotten times.
I don’t understand how some people can be vegan without be heartless. I can understand vegetalian, but I think keeping alife a wide diversity of farms animals is a duty for humanity.
To be fair I love my dogs, my cats, my brothers and sisters, kids, and care a lot for my neighbors too but I don’t plan on slaughtering and eating any of them or eating any of their bodily productions so I just don’t see the connection you’re making about vegans being heartless.
Well, without rising farm animals, many of them would not survive. We could let more wild spaces for them, but even so we would still have to accept some extinctions. And I don’t think we would really let them enough space for their needs. So I see veganism as an acceptation of this extinctions. As the vegan contributor said earlier, they see animals who don’t live or are killed very early as the luckiest.
I agree that we do not anymore have an absolute need to keep rising animals. Thanks to our technological progress, due for a significant part to our exploitation of animals. But so we would now fire them and let them die? This sound heartless to me.
To be honest we kill alot more animals to build conventional farms then they help produce, and again in horrific conditions.
If aliens came down to earth and offered not to eat us and only kind of save us from extinction or to save us fully but by shoving us in incubator tunnels and to be slaughtered at 25 for food, id consider the first to be kindness not the latter.
I think we don’t have the same thing in mind behind the concept of a “conventional farm”. You seem to have in mind something I would call industrialized, while I have in mind something you may call traditional.
For your aliens story, if you want to make it match our relationship with farm animals, you have to let them first breed humans into races that are dedicated to some of their needs so they specialize us. For thousands of years they should not care about how we would survive without them, but make some specialized for our meat, some for our hair, some for our milk, some for what ever matter to them but has no chance to help us in any way. And after thousands of years of total alienation of those of our kind, some would suggest to keep industrialize their process, some would suggest to release us in some corner of wild they may let us (but they don’t know which yet) and some would suggest to keep take care of us but in a better way. The second’s wish is very beautiful, but has great chances to leed to our extinction if we aren’t able to take care of ourselves anymore. The third’s wish is the one in which we would have a chance to gain back an existence as animals without race, without a specialization nor optimization to serve others ; as animals able to live for ourselves. Choice would not be ours, but does the second really seems obviously better to you?
Conventional meaning where some odd 70-90% of meat production comes from industrial farms globally. Also including extractive farming in which land is strip of nutrients as effectively as possible and fossil fuels are mine, shipped and processed to both power the mechanisasion of those farms and flood the soil with synthesized fertilizer to reduce times between extractive crop production. Mainly to produce feed stock that is easily fed into factory farms.
That is currently the norm. People like me with chickens in the garden or my neighbors with goats in their pastures are by in large the minority.
Still fairly obvious. If I, an alien, cared about the animals (in this case humans) the third option of seeing likely reduce stage and output from human habitats to be extracted in exchange for people to have more autonomy and a pathway to non-exploitive existence.
It seems we at the very least agree that industrialization of agriculture comes with an environmental cost which is too high (and probably not substainable on the long run).
Also, we seem to agree to do not let farm animals survive by selselves in the wild, but keep some human rise some (in good conditions).
But so, I am not that sure on what we disagree. I would guess that vegans in your place may allow rising animals? Here, they had many movements to free some farm animals from their fields claiming it is better for them to die early and free than to live in slavery… While I see the beauty of the aim, I find the consequences scary.
Lucky animals are those who don’t live?
Vegan are so scary.
I raise chickens to eat. They don’t need to be raised in a torture chamber so they can be feed, bred or slaughtered on an assembly line. You only need that if need that so people can eat chicken for cheaper then veggies and for every meal.
You could also have chickens just live as part of an ecosystem and never kill them yourself. They actually don’t need to be tortured to exist
Yes of course! Many farmers actually love their animals and take good care of them. And yes, some people have chicken, gooses, or some other farm animals as pet. For some, such as donkeys, they are rised despite a lost of material interest ; mostly to maintain exsitant some animals who served us since forgotten times.
I don’t understand how some people can be vegan without be heartless. I can understand vegetalian, but I think keeping alife a wide diversity of farms animals is a duty for humanity.
To be fair I love my dogs, my cats, my brothers and sisters, kids, and care a lot for my neighbors too but I don’t plan on slaughtering and eating any of them or eating any of their bodily productions so I just don’t see the connection you’re making about vegans being heartless.
Well, without rising farm animals, many of them would not survive. We could let more wild spaces for them, but even so we would still have to accept some extinctions. And I don’t think we would really let them enough space for their needs. So I see veganism as an acceptation of this extinctions. As the vegan contributor said earlier, they see animals who don’t live or are killed very early as the luckiest.
I agree that we do not anymore have an absolute need to keep rising animals. Thanks to our technological progress, due for a significant part to our exploitation of animals. But so we would now fire them and let them die? This sound heartless to me.
To be honest we kill alot more animals to build conventional farms then they help produce, and again in horrific conditions.
If aliens came down to earth and offered not to eat us and only kind of save us from extinction or to save us fully but by shoving us in incubator tunnels and to be slaughtered at 25 for food, id consider the first to be kindness not the latter.
I think we don’t have the same thing in mind behind the concept of a “conventional farm”. You seem to have in mind something I would call industrialized, while I have in mind something you may call traditional.
For your aliens story, if you want to make it match our relationship with farm animals, you have to let them first breed humans into races that are dedicated to some of their needs so they specialize us. For thousands of years they should not care about how we would survive without them, but make some specialized for our meat, some for our hair, some for our milk, some for what ever matter to them but has no chance to help us in any way. And after thousands of years of total alienation of those of our kind, some would suggest to keep industrialize their process, some would suggest to release us in some corner of wild they may let us (but they don’t know which yet) and some would suggest to keep take care of us but in a better way. The second’s wish is very beautiful, but has great chances to leed to our extinction if we aren’t able to take care of ourselves anymore. The third’s wish is the one in which we would have a chance to gain back an existence as animals without race, without a specialization nor optimization to serve others ; as animals able to live for ourselves. Choice would not be ours, but does the second really seems obviously better to you?
Conventional meaning where some odd 70-90% of meat production comes from industrial farms globally. Also including extractive farming in which land is strip of nutrients as effectively as possible and fossil fuels are mine, shipped and processed to both power the mechanisasion of those farms and flood the soil with synthesized fertilizer to reduce times between extractive crop production. Mainly to produce feed stock that is easily fed into factory farms.
That is currently the norm. People like me with chickens in the garden or my neighbors with goats in their pastures are by in large the minority.
Still fairly obvious. If I, an alien, cared about the animals (in this case humans) the third option of seeing likely reduce stage and output from human habitats to be extracted in exchange for people to have more autonomy and a pathway to non-exploitive existence.
What kind of existence do you?
It seems we at the very least agree that industrialization of agriculture comes with an environmental cost which is too high (and probably not substainable on the long run).
Also, we seem to agree to do not let farm animals survive by selselves in the wild, but keep some human rise some (in good conditions).
But so, I am not that sure on what we disagree. I would guess that vegans in your place may allow rising animals? Here, they had many movements to free some farm animals from their fields claiming it is better for them to die early and free than to live in slavery… While I see the beauty of the aim, I find the consequences scary.