If the options are evil and lesser evil, you are morally obligated to choose lesser evil. There is no neutral stance. If you didn’t vote for the democrats, you strengthened the republicans. Don’t call people morally bankrupt when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
The US will regress into autocracy and people like you are partially responsible.
The thing that concerns me, is where does it stop? This is something I’ve been thinking about all through the election cycle, and even now. I understand the idea of voting for lesser evil. And that’s exactly what I did. But when you vote for the lesser evil, you are showing your support of that evil. You are sending a message that it’s an acceptable level of evil. That it’s tolerable as long as the alternative is something worse. And it allows the Democrats to keep shifting further right little by little.
We already saw that with Harris campaigning on having “the most lethal military”, and talking about how she’s going to continue building Trump’s wall. (Something Biden did, but at least wasn’t campaigning on, and acting like it’s a selling point). Maybe the next democratic candidate will be even more anti immigrant, but still pro lgbtqia+. So we have to vote for them over the Republican candidate. Then the next dem candidate is only pro lgb, but anti trans. Democrats were already talking about how Harris’s support of trans people lost her the election. When she never even openly campaigned on any trans issues as far as I saw.
And we can elect the lesser of two evils and then protest and send a message about the issues that we don’t support them on. But at the end of the day, what incentive do they have to change? What are you going to do about it? Not vote for them and get the greater evil?
Obviously voting 3rd party just splits the left leaning candidates votes and allows the right to win. But unconditional support of the democratic party seems like it just allows them to take a leisurely stroll towards the right every election. I don’t have an actual answer. But the idea of continuously voting for the lesser evil as the lesser evil becomes incrementally more evil doesn’t really sit well with me.
If you want them to change, run for office and become the DNC. Actually turn out and get other leftists to turn out and vote. Coalesce with democrats and prioritize defeating Republicans over screaming about how bad the DNC is so you can work internally to get your agendas passed. As it is, the energy I get from leftists is a temper tantrum throwing child who is mad their parents won’t buy them crisps at the store. Screaming and yelling doesn’t make mummy and daddy more likely to buy you the thing you want. It makes them want to leave you kicking and screaming on the ground while they continue their shopping.
If you want things to change you have to become the adult and enact the change yourself. The DNC is not your parent or some singular entity that you need to convince to give into your demands with your tantrums. It’s a political body filled with people, mostly old people who aren’t impressed with your tantrums because young people aren’t engaging in politics.
You have to work your way up and replace those old people and that means running and winning local elections.
Stop being lazy and hoping someone will do it for you.
And yet you didn’t fucking stop anything. The only way for you to improve anything was to vote for the lesser evil. Even in a more functional democracy with proportional voting, there is always only the lesser evil. The perfect choice doesn’t exist in societies as large as ours are.
Harris and Biden are conservatives. No the conditions didn’t improve. But they sure as hell will deteriorate under Trump. Poor people, LGBT folk, women will all suffer greatly. And none of it has anything at all to do with the suffering in Palestine.
I’m a gay brown person and I would 1 million percent rather have 50 years of Biden over the next four years of Trump. Don’t presume to speak for me chud.
If my child was sick and could end up developing several different diseases, where only one just a few were preventable- I wouldn’t just do nothing and let them die because the other diseases couldn’t be cured.
When someone is sick, you do whatever it takes to reduce the damage. You don’t refuse to act because you’re not getting a prognosis of perfect health.
See… it’s bad comparison arguments like this that you all feed each other that has caused the overwhelming lack of understanding of what is going on to begin with.
You’ve reduced the entire thing down to only two threats and made them both equal. This is because you only see ONE issue as the source of the problem, whereas- everyone else understands that there is- was in this case…. FAR more at stake than your simplified version of events.
I gave you a realistic example that illustrated how your choice can reduce the damage and allow them to live to fight another day-
You gave an unrealistic example that let to the justification of your point. Until you learn to change your perspective and face the ugly truth that perfect is unobtainable, and compromise is a necessary tool in making informed decisions where the lives of others are effected by your decision to either act, or do nothing.
Because now, a LOT more than just Palestinians are going to be hurt.
And so in protest, you threw all women, the LGBTQ+, immigrants, minorities and essentially every constitutional protection we have under the bus because justice wasn’t provided to people in a country you couldn’t have pointed to on a map a year and a half ago.
Dunno if you noticed, but a lot if that was happening under Biden already…
Additionally, I know full well where Palestine is… I was in the Middle East for a period, after all. The same period that showed me what happens when we stop caring about genocide.
Okay. lol… we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t have all day to do this. So, enjoy the victory I guess. Everyone hears ya loud and clear now…
If the options are evil and lesser evil, you are morally obligated to choose lesser evil. There is no neutral stance. If you didn’t vote for the democrats, you strengthened the republicans. Don’t call people morally bankrupt when you don’t know what you’re talking about. The US will regress into autocracy and people like you are partially responsible.
The thing that concerns me, is where does it stop? This is something I’ve been thinking about all through the election cycle, and even now. I understand the idea of voting for lesser evil. And that’s exactly what I did. But when you vote for the lesser evil, you are showing your support of that evil. You are sending a message that it’s an acceptable level of evil. That it’s tolerable as long as the alternative is something worse. And it allows the Democrats to keep shifting further right little by little.
We already saw that with Harris campaigning on having “the most lethal military”, and talking about how she’s going to continue building Trump’s wall. (Something Biden did, but at least wasn’t campaigning on, and acting like it’s a selling point). Maybe the next democratic candidate will be even more anti immigrant, but still pro lgbtqia+. So we have to vote for them over the Republican candidate. Then the next dem candidate is only pro lgb, but anti trans. Democrats were already talking about how Harris’s support of trans people lost her the election. When she never even openly campaigned on any trans issues as far as I saw.
And we can elect the lesser of two evils and then protest and send a message about the issues that we don’t support them on. But at the end of the day, what incentive do they have to change? What are you going to do about it? Not vote for them and get the greater evil?
Obviously voting 3rd party just splits the left leaning candidates votes and allows the right to win. But unconditional support of the democratic party seems like it just allows them to take a leisurely stroll towards the right every election. I don’t have an actual answer. But the idea of continuously voting for the lesser evil as the lesser evil becomes incrementally more evil doesn’t really sit well with me.
If you want them to change, run for office and become the DNC. Actually turn out and get other leftists to turn out and vote. Coalesce with democrats and prioritize defeating Republicans over screaming about how bad the DNC is so you can work internally to get your agendas passed. As it is, the energy I get from leftists is a temper tantrum throwing child who is mad their parents won’t buy them crisps at the store. Screaming and yelling doesn’t make mummy and daddy more likely to buy you the thing you want. It makes them want to leave you kicking and screaming on the ground while they continue their shopping.
If you want things to change you have to become the adult and enact the change yourself. The DNC is not your parent or some singular entity that you need to convince to give into your demands with your tantrums. It’s a political body filled with people, mostly old people who aren’t impressed with your tantrums because young people aren’t engaging in politics.
You have to work your way up and replace those old people and that means running and winning local elections.
Stop being lazy and hoping someone will do it for you.
You are never morally obligated to support one evil over another. The only moral choice is stopping both evils.
And yet you didn’t fucking stop anything. The only way for you to improve anything was to vote for the lesser evil. Even in a more functional democracy with proportional voting, there is always only the lesser evil. The perfect choice doesn’t exist in societies as large as ours are.
Stopping the evil was never an option given, on the ballot.
The US doesn’t have proportional voting, or a functioning democracy. Hasn’t in a very long time, if ever.
You’re not listening to me. In politics, there’s rarely “stopping the evil”. It’s not an all or nothing situation.
You act like there is no difference in outcome whether democrats or republicans win elections. You must either be very privileged or very ignorant.
Frankly, it’s political theater.
Has the economic conditions of the working class improve under Biden?
No.
Would it have improved under Harris?
No.
Even if it would have, is your personal situation improving a tiny amount worth 30k dead Palestinians?
Harris and Biden are conservatives. No the conditions didn’t improve. But they sure as hell will deteriorate under Trump. Poor people, LGBT folk, women will all suffer greatly. And none of it has anything at all to do with the suffering in Palestine.
All od those groups were already suffering under Biden…
Things were already deteriorating for them.
Don’t believe me? Ask them.
I’m a gay brown person and I would 1 million percent rather have 50 years of Biden over the next four years of Trump. Don’t presume to speak for me chud.
Suffering is not a binary. It will massively increase under Trump compared to any democrat.
If my child was sick and could end up developing several different diseases, where only one just a few were preventable- I wouldn’t just do nothing and let them die because the other diseases couldn’t be cured.
When someone is sick, you do whatever it takes to reduce the damage. You don’t refuse to act because you’re not getting a prognosis of perfect health.
Ok, let’s say your kid is about to be murdered.
Do you choose the murderer who smiles and you and says nice things, or the murderer who is a shitbag?
No matter what, your kid is getting murdered.
See… it’s bad comparison arguments like this that you all feed each other that has caused the overwhelming lack of understanding of what is going on to begin with.
You’ve reduced the entire thing down to only two threats and made them both equal. This is because you only see ONE issue as the source of the problem, whereas- everyone else understands that there is- was in this case…. FAR more at stake than your simplified version of events.
I gave you a realistic example that illustrated how your choice can reduce the damage and allow them to live to fight another day-
You gave an unrealistic example that let to the justification of your point. Until you learn to change your perspective and face the ugly truth that perfect is unobtainable, and compromise is a necessary tool in making informed decisions where the lives of others are effected by your decision to either act, or do nothing.
Because now, a LOT more than just Palestinians are going to be hurt.
The two threats are equal: genocide will happen, regardless of who got elected.
Either party could have chosen to stand against genocide, but neither did.
And so in protest, you threw all women, the LGBTQ+, immigrants, minorities and essentially every constitutional protection we have under the bus because justice wasn’t provided to people in a country you couldn’t have pointed to on a map a year and a half ago.
Take a bow and be proud of your work.
Dunno if you noticed, but a lot if that was happening under Biden already…
Additionally, I know full well where Palestine is… I was in the Middle East for a period, after all. The same period that showed me what happens when we stop caring about genocide.
Okay. lol… we’re going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t have all day to do this. So, enjoy the victory I guess. Everyone hears ya loud and clear now…